Trail Communication

[WrenchMonkey]

We had a really great turnout at Rush two weeks ago, something like 13 rigs total. This was fantastic, but it really showed how lacking we are in rig-to-rig communication. Some guys run CBs, others carry two-ways, some just yell out the window.

We debated it a bit at the meeting last week, and couldn't come to a consensus, but we did agree to open a discussion here.

So, let's discuss.

I personally prefer two-ways, for a few reasons:
- For the same $100 investment, I can get 8 or 10 handheld two-ways, pass them out before a ride, and everybody is online.

- No install, no tuning, just need a supply of fresh batteries. The newer ones are even rechargeable.

- They can leave the rig with you for spotting, or when hiking back to or ahead of the group.

- And personally, my XJ scrapes the garage door as it is. I'd have to remove and reinstall a CB antenna every ride...

But I'll certainly go with whichever the group decides!

Other opinions?

[Runoveru2]

Agreed it will be hard to get everyone to use the same type of communication, if some have cb's and some have 2 ways I suggest pairing people accordingly and or give someone an extra 2 way to someone with a cb so better communication can be established. Seems everytime I turn around and ask where so and so is someone looks at me like a deer in headlights and says I don't know, come to find out there wheel came off their rig or they had a flat or they broke down behind us and we have no clue cause no one can tell us or we are unable to ask where you are.
1 way or another we have to get this together, I constantly feel uncomfortable that someone needs help or is possibly being left behind, and this is not what we are about.

[WrenchMonkey]

Really, I'll probably end up doing both. The 2ways are just more convenient for the amateur crowd I run with, but I don't want to be the only CORE guy without a CB.

Isn't the antenna supposed to be mounted on a horizontal metal surface? On the roof wont work with the garage, I guess that means my hood?

Are the portable, handheld CBs any good at all?

[WrenchMonkey]

1 way or another we have to get this together, I constantly feel uncomfortable that someone needs help or is possibly being left behind, and this is not what we are about.

We did touch on that at the meeting, and I put it in the minutes. I'll copy it here for more attention. (Nobody ever reads the minutes...)

- Trail Etiquette
Closely related to the communication issue, this is a reminder of the "Watch Your Six" rule: Always, always keep the rig behind you in your mirror. If he stops, you stop. We never want to leave anyone behind in the woods.

Saturday evening, we made a clear decision to split the group on the way to HardCORE. But there were several times through the weekend, when someone had mechanical issues, or struggled with an obstacle, only to have the group ahead just ride off into the sunset. At one point, I had to go back and find Jeff, broken down and alone in the woods, because he just fell off the end of the line. That is not good.

So always watch the guy behind you. If the group is too big and progress too slow (like it got to be Saturday), we can always split into smaller groups, and usually will. But that has to be communicated and agreed upon. Never leave anyone in the woods.

[WrenchMonkey]

I've got the interior space, I can mount whatever clunky pos I want over the rear view mirror.

I'm more concerned with getting the antenna right. If it's got to extend over the roofline, then it either has to be removed after every trip and then reinstalled (and retuned?), or it has to work on some sort of folding mount.

Neither sounds ideal.

[Runoveru2]

We did touch on that at the meeting, and I put it in the minutes. I'll copy it here for more attention. (Nobody ever reads the minutes...)

I always read the meeting minutes and look forward to reading it.

[jeepmanjeff]

I run a CB in mine and have for years. I will continue to do so. I have used handhelds in the past and they get lost, fall off your person, get left in the console, cost to much to replace when you get low and when you hand them out people simply don't care because they have no money inthem. Batteries have to be replenished...I can go on and on.

Mark...I have never tuned mine and would love to have you come over and help me with this. If you have some time in the next dew weeks.

I also read the minutes when I am traveling and cannot attend the meeting.

[beer_goggles_009]

Earlier someone asked about handheld cbs. In my opinion they are junk, I had one for several years and even with an external mag mount antenna it was junk, you could only talk to anyone else if they were right next to you. I have a cb in my rig.... it sucks, It has been tuned in the past and still did not work well at any distance. Mark we can give it another try in Harlan if you think you can tune it better.


My experience with handhelds frs radios has been great. I have talked to folks on boefengs all the way across Harlan. One person at everts trailhead another at campground in Putney. I have also talked to people a few miles away from mission impossible to the main badlands property. I have a friend who have programmed near 100 boefengs. I can get programming instructions if anyone is interested.

[beer_goggles_009]

Mark, The long range frs experience might have been boefeng to boefeng on frs channels. I can't remember.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[93 Krawler]

I always read the meeting minutes and look forward to reading it.

I also read the minutes. You do a great job with them. :thumbup:

The CB in my rig is a wally world cobra special, and is the 2nd one. It's time to get a real one... I also have 3 handhelds and a portable CB that I can hook up in the rzr. The problem I have with handhelds is they are so easy to lose, especially with no doors. And the range is poor in the woods.

I set my CB up at Rush using an srw meter. It worked good till it didn't...

[Smiddy24]

I wasn't at the meeting because of college. But I'm actually going to instal a CB in the summer more than likely. So CB is my preference.

[WrenchMonkey]

I'm always learning new stuff (and forgetting an equal amount at the same time, lol). Here's a bit of cb antenna tech that Bush mentioned b4, but I didn't understand until now. CB radio waves propagate downward and the "ground plane" is the flat metal surface surrounding the antenna that bounces the waves back into the atmosphere...

That's what I was asking about with the horizontal surface.

Over the roof just won't work for me. There's just no good way to mount it to the hatch, sticking up. And even with a disconnect, the base on the roof would hit the garage.

Anywhere on the sides will get ripped of rubbing on trees. That's just how I drive.

I think my best bet, if I can make it fit, is INSIDE the passenger fender, sticking up though the hole where the factory radio was. I'll need a spring mount, so it'll lean over for tree limbs, rather than break. And a disconnect to get it in the garage.

It won't be ideal, but like you said, everything is a compromise. This will at least give me the hood as a ground plane, and a top-loaded 3' antenna will still put the coil over the roofline by about 18".


(And I appreciate the compliments on the minutes, I know they do get some reads. But they average about 8-10 views each month. General Discussion threads average more like 2-300, including this one, currently 327. This is definitely the better forum to get the word out. And actually, or PSA did get kinda buried in this thread, too. I'll give it its own, because I really do think it's important.)

[93 Krawler]

You might want to take a look at a Firestik "firefly" antenna. It's a thinner/flexible fiberglass whip with the same screw top tuning tip as the Firestik 2. I'm putting one on my buggy cause it will bend out of the way in conjunction with the spring.
Read through the Amazon reviews of whatever you buy. I seem to recall that those who DD their rigs have problems with the wind above 55mph with the "medium duty" spring. Those people said the heavy duty spring performed much better. Oh, and make sure the spring is stainless.

This is the antenna I have.

[Runoveru2]

Vehicle mounting location does play a role. This is merely an example of the changes and not to be taken as exact patterns, but ya'll get the idea.

As most know I have my antenna mounted to the center of my frame through the diamond plate of the rear of my rig, it is also nearly level on the height of my rig, it's normal for me to talk to people all across the state and other states with a little uniden that has a little work done to it. Only downfall to my cb is that I can't be to close to people and key up. I belive mounting location is a extreme factor

[Flint]

Wow, how many watts are you running?

[Runoveru2]

Wow, how many watts are you running?

I have absolutely no idea, friend of mine that's a truck driver got it for me for my birthday bout 16 years ago, he told me it was the only Cb I would ever need.

[WrenchMonkey]

Question....

Is anyone here interested in getting a Baofeng programable 2 way?

Something like this?

https://www.amazon.com/BaoFeng-BF-888S-Two-Radio-2pcs/dp/B00ECW9DB4/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&dd=JfLELqf1EDAu4VYeAWICMA%2C%2C&ddc_refnmnt=pfod&ie=UTF8&qid=1494020872&sr=1-3

[WrenchMonkey]

Something like this?

On the Baofeng website you linked to, that 888s is listed under "discontinued radios." Guess that's why it's cheap?

[jeepmanjeff]

Where are you getting it tuned at? Do they need the vehicle as well when doing so? I have a really nice cobra I want to get tuned as well and some suggestions on CB antenna mounting.

[mastiff]

If anyone is interested, I have a good friend the sell 25watt waterproof dual bands and 75 watt dual bands. If interested, look up Brad Blair on facebook and he can hook you up for a lot less than rugged ridge.

[Runoveru2]

I can't even begin to describe how happy I was with the trail communication, the stress level was completely gone knowing you had direct contact at all times and little to no possibility of someone falling behind, This communication needs to be the top of the priority list on wheeling outings.

[WrenchMonkey]

Okay, you've convinced me that it's time I get something together. I don't want or need fancy, just functional.

So in my amazon shopping cart, I've got:
- That Uniden pro520xl radio that Mark recommended as "the upper end of cheap." That's me.
- A three foot, tip-adjustable Firestik, FS-3BK, per the "choosing the best antenna" link.
- 18' coax, a Firestik HD stainless spring, and both their K4 and K4A mounting studs.

Anything I should change before I pull the trigger? I may soften to the medium spring, it won't be on there day-to-day to be a problem on the highway.

Once I pull my fender off, I can see what kind of bracket I'll want to rig up to reuse the factory antenna hole. My goal there is to protect the mount and base from damage, and just have the spring and antenna exposed. I may need to (may go ahead and) add a grounding wire, rather than trust the stud-bracket-fender-body connections. I guess since the coax ends at the stud, the spring itself is "live" and needs to not ground out on the fender. That'll take some attention.

That radio will support an external speaker, but that's easy enough to add later that I'll try it as-is first.

If I make it to Rich's could I get some help tuning it before Rush?

[WrenchMonkey]

Your stud will be isolated from a 1/2" hole...

It'll mount and ground through the 1/2" hole in the bracket I put inside the fender, then the spring and antenna will just poke up through the 1" hole in the fender.

Anything above that will then be isolated as well...

Unless the spring leans over and contacts the metal of the fender, the edge of that 1" hole, that's my worry. Though, as along as it's not the moment I'm transmitting, I guess it won't hurt anything.

Fyi, if you use the K4 terminal end stud you'll also need a terminal end coax...

This? I think it's right. (pic below)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001JT0CGI/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_dp_T2_MTZnzbDZVMMRP


Only thing I would also suggest is a 90 degree male to female coax adapter...

I saw those, but I'm going to try to follow the factory antenna lead as much as I can. It shoots straight down a foot before passing though the inner fender and firewall.

Appreciate the advice, as always!

[WrenchMonkey]

That makes sense. I was ordering both studs because I wasn't clear on the difference. I'll just do K4A.