Black Mountain (aka Harlan) Permit Fee System

[tjjeepjeep]

Just got this and wanted to pass it along to everyone:

To All Visitors:

It is the goal of the Harlan County Outdoor Recreation Board Authority to provide our visitors with the best possible off-road destination in Eastern Kentucky. While the Black Mountain Off-Road Adventure Area has many local supporters who help make it what it is, necessary funds are vital for its growth and development.

A permit fee system has been enacted to ride on Black Mountain Off-Road Adventure Area. This permit system will grant the funds necessary for maintenance of the park, security, enhancement of existing trails, fund new trails and necessary projects for the improvement of the park.

Permits can be purchased yearly or monthly and are sold per vehicle. A yearly pass can be purchased at $35.00 or a 31 day pass can be purchased for $20.00 per vehicle.

Owners of multiple vehicles can purchase one pass for up to three vehicles. All the vehicles will be listed in our database. However, the purchaser will only be allowed one vehicle on the park at a time. The permit will be changed to the vehicle in use for that day. The yearly permit will be at cost of $40.00 or the 31 day permit can be purchased at a cost of $25.00. The permit could not be permanently fixed to any vehicle since only one permit would be given.

Family permits will also be available for purchase. These permits are for owners of several vehicles that would use more than one vehicle on the park at a time. This would be considered a family situation. Each vehicle would receive a sticker and I.D. The cost of the first vehicle would be $35.00, the second would be $30.00, the third and all others would be $20.00. There will be no family permits for 31 days.

Permits are available now at the Harlan Tourism Office, Buddies Chevron in Evarts, and Harlan County Campground in Putney. They will also be available on our website www.harlancountytrails.com soon. For more information on any of the permits listed above, please contact the board secretary, Susan Haught at 606-573-4495 or you can email her at shaught@harlanonline.net.

Thank you for your support and for making Black Mountain Off-road Adventure Area among the top 10 off-road destinations in the U.S.

Sincerely,
Michael King
President

[sarge]

hmmmm drive 6 hours , pay $20 or $35 to wheel :mad: .

I think I'll just continue to ride at 909 and the Bridge ( free ) until they shut them down and then I guess I'll just sell the rig and start drag racing again.

[carwash]

6 hours? Must be one of those epic CORE convoys... trailers losing wheels, breaking leaf springs, etc... hahahah.

I can get to harlan in 3 hours, worth the yearly fee to me, even if i don't wheel there... it's a place worth paying to keep it open. when my rig is done (4 more years) it will definitely be my stomping grounds.

But, can't wait to hit the 909 again with ya sarge...

[JET455]

Im with Carwash on that one $35 bucks a year is cheap even if you don't go. Id rather pay them than give it to a club that does nothing for the future!

[sarge]

Comments from two guys that haven't wheeled in how long ????
Just saying that for one trip a year ( what I normally do ) I'm not pleased with having to pay. I would rather go to somewhere that I do not have to pay . I like Harlen , however , it is not for a rig set up like mine . I'm not going to drive all the way down there ( yes Carwash, It normally takes me that long in the RV ) and drive around on gravel roads or bunny trails and watch other big rigs wheel in the rocks. Some might call that a good time .. Not I !
I do not have the extra money to put my rig on tons and get a new set of tires just to go to Harlen . Great place, but too big for me !
I'll continue to give my money to the local stores around 909 and the Bridge.

[JET455]

Comments from two guys that haven't wheeled in how long ????
Just saying that for one trip a year ( what I normally do ) I'm not pleased with having to pay. I would rather go to somewhere that I do not have to pay . I like Harlen , however , it is not for a rig set up like mine . I'm not going to drive all the way down there ( yes Carwash, It normally takes me that long in the RV ) and drive around on gravel roads or bunny trails and watch other big rigs wheel in the rocks. Some might call that a good time .. Not I !
I do not have the extra money to put my rig on tons and get a new set of tires just to go to Harlen . Great place, but too big for me !
I'll continue to give my money to the local stores around 909 and the Bridge.


Ha! Well I still went out and shared a friends jeep. I was only down 1 season. Im back this season :p

[carwash]

i understand that sarge. i guess what i mean is that it's good to support the area. tellico is now closed, 909 is gone(for the most part), slade will probably fall closely behind, is it was all public land. The only places that are gonna be left are the private pay to play parks... sad but true i think.

[mckeddie]

sucks to pay, but hell, add up your haspin and attica bill, where else can you wheel as much as you want for $35 and not have to worry about it being closed next month? i'll happily pay for that.

[sarge]

Don't get me wrong, I'll pay it if I have to ! and I agree that it is a good thing , but I'm still going to ***** about it. It's kinda like $4.00/gal gas ..... and the fact the we americans bring on the suck ! You figure $35.00 a rig x 1000 = 35K . What are they going to do for 35k on the mountain? It just sounds like someone is making some $$$ at our expense.

[boomhauer]

Don't get me wrong, I'll pay it if I have to ! and I agree that it is a good thing , but I'm still going to ***** about it. It's kinda like $4.00/gal gas ..... and the fact the we americans bring on the suck ! You figure $35.00 a rig x 1000 = 35K . What are they going to do for 35k on the mountain? It just sounds like someone is making some $$$ at our expense.

as i understand it from ken cryder, the park is getting ready to sign a 25 year lease to the mountain crawlers. they are in the process of getting some grant money which has to be matched therefore the fee to ride. they are also planning on buiulding some rental cabins up on the mountain in certain places so there again the need for the fee. no one certain person is making money as it all goes into the park fund. it does cost money to maintain/ open new trails and they will have to pay people (probably off duty police officers) to patrol the park for permits and whatnot. i would almost certainly bet you have 35.00 worth of stuff you don't even use anymore that you could sell to offset the cost to ride one of the only parks that is certain to be left open for quite some time.
not trying to start anything here just stating a few facts. no offense meant.

[94Dodge Truggy]

I am willing to pay and would hope to see other closed areas possibly be able to see the benifits and re-open in the future. As long as fellow wheelers continue to help out with the land, environment and community we will make a positive impact on others. Go CORE!

[JeffK5]

They should pull big coin in .... seeing as Tellico just closed .


If me paying $35 a year helps keep that place open and lets them sign a long term deal then I'm all for it. I'm also not wealthy and don't have cash to burn but I chose this hobby knowing it has costs associated with it... me paying to play on someone else's property isn't the end of the world.

Where do you still legally ride at 909? I still know guys that go down to Livingston and trespass and put a black eye on the sport we all love.The reason we will eventually have to pay-to-play every where we go is the abuse of the legal public riding ares or people that ride illegally and think if they don't get caught there was no crime committed.

Jeff

[sarge]

909 is the same as the Bridge , Lic. and Ins. is all that is required . The only place that I know of that is off limits is pink rock and the areas off to the side of the main trail in the front section towards the 49er. Until I here other wise I will continue to give the sport a black eye , as you put it ! as if the ATV riders don't do it daily ..... Just like at the bridge last week end

[mckeddie]

as i understand it from ken cryder, the park is getting ready to sign a 25 year lease to the mountain crawlers. they are in the process of getting some grant money which has to be matched therefore the fee to ride. they are also planning on buiulding some rental cabins up on the mountain in certain places so there again the need for the fee. no one certain person is making money as it all goes into the park fund. it does cost money to maintain/ open new trails and they will have to pay people (probably off duty police officers) to patrol the park for permits and whatnot. i would almost certainly bet you have 35.00 worth of stuff you don't even use anymore that you could sell to offset the cost to ride one of the only parks that is certain to be left open for quite some time.
not trying to start anything here just stating a few facts. no offense meant.

exactly.

[4RunnerAdam]

Diddnt they grade all the main roads (which is the only legal riding area) at 909?

Thats what the pics show here

http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/boone/recreation/cromer.shtml

[sarge]

this has been gone over to many times and answered to many times ......

[tinbeater]

Just got back from Harlan today. After talking to the KYMC. group alot of good things will happen with the money from the permits.
To anybody that wants to complain about the permit fee, why dont you go and buy a few thousand acres and let everyone ride for free and pay for the up keep and improvement out of your pocket.:D

[sarge]

blah, blah , damn all of you!!! someone can't even grumble alittle bit about having to pay with out getting monkey jumped.... this is another reason this club and this sport are in trouble.:p

[Flxratd]

blah, blah , damn all of you!!! someone can't even grumble alittle bit about having to pay with out getting monkey jumped.... this is another reason this club and this sport are in trouble.:p

As far as the sport is concerned the atvs and riding lawn mowers and cars at the bottom of the bridge all seem to be locals around the property which still gives us (as wheelers) a bad rap. i would like to see some ideas about that so we can keep places open to ride wether its a gravel road or whatever terrain anyone chooses to ride. i just got back from the badlands and paid $20 to get in and ride which is alot cheaper than the 10 million they paid for 1200 acres and i will continue to go back as well as other places so lets just see what we can do to help our sport instead of saying i will do what i want untill someone tells me not to and screw everyone else if im the cause....

p.s. curious as to why the club is in trouble seems the last meeting was our best and we had 4 (well 3 paid) members that were not there?

[tinbeater]

blah, blah , damn all of you!!! someone can't even grumble alittle bit about having to pay with out getting monkey jumped.... this is another reason this club and this sport are in trouble.:p

Looked like they are doing very well where I was this weekend.:D

[94Dodge Truggy]

Sarge why is everyone always picking on you? Guess you may have to come to the meeting and straighten them up! Harlan really seems to be a town helped out by wheeling!

[JeffK5]

Sarge, I'm not saying your doing anything wrong or are having negative effects on our hobby... For all I know you have friends/family that own some of that property and can play anywhere you want down there.

I just think you got jumped because you suggested to people that there where alternatives to pay-to-play parks ... and the first area you brought up was a place most of us believe to be illegal.

I can, without a doubt say that I would have payed $20 a weekend to ride at S-Tree or Livingston.:)

[sarge]

The club is in trouble because the numbers are in the toilet ! I've been around for a long time and I don't know our current numbers , but I bet they are not even close to the 30-40 members that it once was...... why , your guess is as good as mine, maybe some of the whining that goes on .

[humpy]

Looked like they are doing very well where I was this weekend.:D

i agree...we camped friday and wheeled saturday...have no problems payin the $35 fee...when u pay to ride attica u can only ride till like 6 in the evening or something like that correct?.... $35 to be able to ride 24 hours a day for a year is nothing and it majorly helps keep it open...i also talked to some of the kymc group...i have 2 give them a big thumbs up they are doin one hell of a job...they also added that some of the money from the fee system will go towards renting heavy equipment for making trails...i think its an awesome place to ride and will 4 sure go back...

[humpy]

hmmmm drive 6 hours , pay $20 or $35 to wheel :mad: .

I guess I'll just sell the rig and start drag racing again.

thats funny **** right there!!!! seems like last time i went to edgewater it cost something like $15 just for the test and tune night and then another $10 or $15 for my passenger to get in....u gonna start complaining to the drag strip owners to let you race for free cause it takes an hour and a half to get there and race fuel is expensive???

[carwash]

While i have no problem paying the money, I feel what sarge is saying. We used to have tons of places to wheel that didn't cost a dime, and there was never a threat of any of them being shut down. Now the places are closing up like strip clubs, and it seems our hobby gets more and more expensive every year, with fuel, entry fees, etc.

I enjoy Harlan thoroughly, and will gladly pay. Would it be better if i didn't have to, well of course. but the money will go to making the place better, keep it open etc, and that's what it's all about.

Sarge, i didn't mean my comments towards you in particular in my first reply or in any kind of attacking way, etc... They were in general, as i know at least 50% of people feel the same way, and miss the hay days of wheeling without fees, etc. I wonder if Tellico would still be open if they had instituted something like this a few years ago.

[94Dodge Truggy]

thats funny **** right there!!!! seems like last time i went to edgewater it cost something like $15 just for the test and tune night and then another $10 or $15 for my passenger to get in....u gonna start complaining to the drag strip owners to let you race for free cause it takes an hour and a half to get there and race fuel is expensive???

I believe the 6 hour drive may also be a factor here.

[Flxratd]

The club is in trouble because the numbers are in the toilet ! I've been around for a long time and I don't know our current numbers , but I bet they are not even close to the 30-40 members that it once was...... why , your guess is as good as mine, maybe some of the whining that goes on .

well ive been around for 5 years now and i dont remember ever seeing 30-40 members in that time but yes the numbers are better and most of the whining happens on here by people who arent members but thats there right and opinion. just to fill you in the club is rebounding nicely with a whole new attitude and what seems to be a nice batch of new members that are interested in the sport so thanks to them and the long term people who have been able to weather the economy and the whining. now that im done with my whining lets just try to stay focused on the goal at hand and do what we can to keep the sport alive and well.

[tjjeepjeep]

To post this or not to post this...and open this back up. That was my question. Let's hope I made the right choice.

boomhauer/tinbeater/humpy / anyone else? I'm seeing some threads on other boards about people being pulled over re:license / registration / insurance. Have you guys heard anything more specific or just the same stuff in these? Initially it was looking like focus more on ATVs, but the latest one on KYMC had me wondering what the word is.

http://harlancountytrails.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1236563368

http://kymc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4198

[humpy]

To post this or not to post this...and open this back up. That was my question. Let's hope I made the right choice.

boomhauer/tinbeater/humpy / anyone else? I'm seeing some threads on other boards about people being pulled over re:license / registration / insurance. Have you guys heard anything more specific or just the same stuff in these? Initially it was looking like focus more on ATVs, but the latest one on KYMC had me wondering what the word is.

http://harlancountytrails.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1236563368

http://kymc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4198

me and dewey were at natural bridge in january and ran into a couple guys that said the week before we were there some of their rigs got ticketed for no insurance and that they were really crackin down on that...other than that its all i have heard...tinbeater may know more...

[sarge]

thats funny **** right there!!!! seems like last time i went to edgewater it cost something like $15 just for the test and tune night and then another $10 or $15 for my passenger to get in....u gonna start complaining to the drag strip owners to let you race for free cause it takes an hour and a half to get there and race fuel is expensive???

I just might complain alittle .... It's my Mother F'n right to complain ! I live 20 min's from a drag strip , that's why I brought it up. Thats means no fuel for the RV, no Trailer . CarWash got it right .
Jesus Christ ... relax a little bit ! It's called an open forum to discuss topics and some of you take it personal , and want to attack people for there opinion .. what ever ! I'm done dealing with it ..

Sarge out !

[GPER]

30 years ago I wheel at Ceasars Creek, the they built a lake there. There was Poverty Knob and that was 5 bucks back then. 10 years ago we wheeled Livingston and had a great time there.

Places are getting farther away, but there have never been anything in this sport that didn't cost an arm and a leg. It is something I have done for many years. I will continue to drive my CJ to and from the wheeling spots.

The sport has changed and the places to wheel are even further. So you either change with it or you leave it. That is why I have the Polaris Ranger because I will not get out, I will find a better way. Don't worry the CJ stays.

[tinbeater]

To post this or not to post this...and open this back up. That was my question. Let's hope I made the right choice.

boomhauer/tinbeater/humpy / anyone else? I'm seeing some threads on other boards about people being pulled over re:license / registration / insurance. Have you guys heard anything more specific or just the same stuff in these? Initially it was looking like focus more on ATVs, but the latest one on KYMC had me wondering what the word is.

http://harlancountytrails.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1236563368

http://kymc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4198

I did see a few atvs pulled over in town but none or them had helments on.
One thing that the KYMC. guys were telling us about was they want to take some of the money from the permit sells and open a welcome center and parting lot on the same side of the road as the park so you wouldnt have to access the road???
I think the Purtney trailhead is the Ideal setup for this reason but it is private owned.

[blazerbrad]

Having relatively close and free places to ride are great, but close and free also mean they are big targets to close down. We recently loss a large and long-time (going back into the '70's era) riding area that was really fun. It was 10 minutes from a nice state park for camping and stores, and 15 minutes from one other trail system, and 30 minutes from yet another.....basically you could go down there and set up camp, ride an area one day, then another completely different area the next day or two, take a dip in the lake in the evening, then sit around the campfire and drink your "pop".

Now with the one place closed it's not really worth it for do a multi-day trip.

The sad part about it is money is the key factor. Sure, the local stores, gas stations, and campgrounds (the ranger would always stop by and chat for awhile) love having wheeling groups there because we spend money. However riding was free (township roads through private property) but the property owners didn't like people getting off the township roads and all of the irresponsible riders tearing stuff up and throwing beer cans around.....all for free. I've talked to some of these land owners and if you could guarantee them they could make $1,000/week by charging people to ride they would likely change their tune, plus a lot of clubs would be willing to donate some time to clean up and do some maintenance.