Before & After - My 1993 K1500

[93 Krawler]

My first trip out with the truck was on 1-1-08 at Haspin. I saw CORE there for their hangover run. I started out with with a 6" lift and 35's on the stock IFS. I got bored with it pretty quick and started upgrading.
3505
3506
3507

And now...
3510
3511

I originally planned on a full exo, but decided on just some grill protection and half an exo instead. Made some simple tube doors I can swap out when it's nice out. Let's go wheelin. :thumbup:

[yellowjacket]

Looks lot better now.. What mod made the biggest improv? I guessin the solid axle, or the trail lightening...or some other mod?...

[93 Krawler]

The biggest improvement was the axle swap. That torsion bar bracket in the middle of the truck would hang up on a lot. It also made it ride better off road and flex better. I used a 52" rear spring with a 4" lift on the front so it would flex good. Except for the cage, most of the other stuff was a ripple effect. Heavy truck with big tires = big axles, moving the front axle forward to clear the big tires = hydro steering, and so on.
Now I need more power. Where's Tim the Tool Man Taylor at... :rolleyes:

[93 Krawler]

Here are some build pics as it evolved through the years.

Off with the bed.
6664
6665

The bed, box, and fuel cell done.
6666

Rock sliders getting installed.
6669

Starting the exo cage.
6667

[93 Krawler]

Working on the rear cage
6670

6671

6672

Cage almost done. Added some bracing and cab protection later. Still IFS at this point.
6673

Started the 1 ton axle swap. I wish my tires still looked that good.
6674

[93 Krawler]

To the front...
6675

6676

6677

Swap all done.
6678

6679

[93 Krawler]

Added some front end protection. This was supposed to be the start of the front exo. I never liked the way the tube looked that came down from the top, so I never finished it, Until...
6680

New tube doors.
6681

I got sick of all the heat inside the engine compartment and tryin to see around the hood and fender so the dog house got removed. This was the only way to get the exo look I wanted.
6682

6683

The radiator suppport and platform for the stinger
6685

[93 Krawler]

6686

Started the front exo
6687

6688

Exo is finished
6689

All done except headlights.
6690

[93 Krawler]

I cracked the knuckle in Harlan and patched it to get me through the rest of the weekend. After getting the new knuckles, I decided to not use my old 4 bolt high steer arms and get the Solid 6 bolt arms. Hopefully I get them in the next few days.
6691

I upgraded to the Solid Axle steering knuckles. The difference between the two are huge.
6692

6693

The lower king pin bearings are probably original and in horrible shape.
6694

[93 Krawler]

I hate waiting on parts. I ordered those arms from Solid, which is in North Lima Ohio, and don't have them yet. I order from Jegs or Summit, and I get it next day. Bronco Graveyard is in Michigan and I get it in 2 days max. Day 3 and Solid hasn't even charged my card yet. Maybe they're made to order or something, who knows. They just need to hurry up and send them so I can get my rig back together for Harlan. :sweatin: I guess I will use my old ones if I have to... :(

[93 Krawler]

I just called them. The arms are on backorder for 2 weeks, so plan B is in action. I'm getting my old arms notched tomorrow just in case.

[93 Krawler]

Got the arms back. They did a nice job notching for the keyway. Now I'm wondering if I should even get new arms. They worked fine before, and now they are keyed and have 5 bolts. If I have time, I do want to make a spring eliminator plate. This will work for now if I don't.

[93 Krawler]

I'm thinking about loosing the full size rig, and going to something not as wide or heavy. It weighs in at 5300 lbs.

Either I do a whole new build, or use the doghouse from a S-10 extended cab, and switch cabs. That means I would have to completely redo my cage. I would use 1 3/4 .120 this time. I would link it front and rear. Relocate the radiator to the rear, then I could chop off the front and rear as much as possible for a good approach angle, and weight loss. Was even thinking about using the all aluminum 5.3, using an aluminum radiator, and ditching the steel cable in the winch to save more weight. I will still run the current axles/tires. The thing I'm not sure of is how much lighter will it be. Is the extended cab s-10 lighter than a full size regular cab, or heavier? Would using the frame from the s-10 instead of the full size frame be benificial? Does anyone have the cab measurements on a extended cab s-10? Any help would be appreciated.

[WrenchMonkey]

I love this plan.

Sorry, no help. Just moral support!

[underpowered]

I'm thinking about loosing the full size rig, and going to something not as wide or heavy. It weighs in at 5300 lbs.

Either I do a whole new build, or use the doghouse from a S-10 extended cab, and switch cabs. That means I would have to completely redo my cage. I would use 1 3/4 .120 this time. I would link it front and rear. Relocate the radiator to the rear, then I could chop off the front and rear as much as possible for a good approach angle, and weight loss. Was even thinking about using the all aluminum 5.3, using an aluminum radiator, and ditching the steel cable in the winch to save more weight. I will still run the current axles/tires. The thing I'm not sure of is how much lighter will it be. Is the extended cab s-10 lighter than a full size regular cab, or heavier? Would using the frame from the s-10 instead of the full size frame be benificial? Does anyone have the cab measurements on a extended cab s-10? Any help would be appreciated.



Just throwing it out there, by the time in invest that much effort into redoing a rig, or building a whole new one basically i would think you would be time and money ahead to just go full tube chassis. You have the hard parts already by re-using you current drivetrain, just sub out the truck body and frame for a tube chassis.

I have given this some thought recently at well about my big behemoth of a K5. Looked into build it. links, more tube, hacking it up for better approach/departure angles and so forth and came to the above conclusion. The Only upside to the truck, is i have a title to the blazer and could keep it streetable.

[93 Krawler]

Just throwing it out there, by the time in invest that much effort into redoing a rig, or building a whole new one basically i would think you would be time and money ahead to just go full tube chassis. You have the hard parts already by re-using you current drivetrain, just sub out the truck body and frame for a tube chassis.

I have given this some thought recently at well about my big behemoth of a K5. Looked into build it. links, more tube, hacking it up for better approach/departure angles and so forth and came to the above conclusion. The Only upside to the truck, is i have a title to the blazer and could keep it streetable.

I see your point, but I really want to have a cab and doors though. It sure makes wheeling in the winter or rain a lot nicer.

[blazerbrad]

I'm really interested to see what you come up with as I'm in the same boat. I like the K5 but simply having a smaller body seems like it would make most trails a little more enjoyable as you don't have to worry about snaking in and out of trees as much....the tires would still be the same width but at least you wouldn't have to worry about the body as much.

Not sure on the weights but wouldn't think you lose much between the fullsize regular cab and S-10 extended cab considering most of the heavy stuff (frame, drivetrain, etc...) all stays the same.

[Jonesy]

This is the reason I like my truggy so much. It is a full tube chassis but still has a toyota cab and dog house. Seriously thinking of starting a new chassis with the same concept but with a few changes to suit my style better.

[humpy]

I'm not sure your gonna save weight by going to an ex cab s10 cab... I have a cab if u wanna come measure on it... It's a heavy pig... If u wanna save weight get rid of the full frame and do a tube frame it makes a world of difference... The green ex s10 I built that I posted pix of a while back had some of the original frame and time I plated it up to be strong enough for the links it got real fn heavy... My current rig/build is a full tube chassis reg cab s10 with tons and its gonna be MUCH lighter than the ex cab I built for my buddy

[humpy]

Here's my frame 6922
6923
6924

I'm hoping to weigh in under 4500#

[humpy]

Ex cab linked both ends makes for LONG wb... My buddies is 12 9 and be tough to get it much shorter and still have good approach/departure angles... Mind is 116" and right where I wanted it

[Runoveru2]

Your engine, axles, frame size are what's killin you on weight, my rig weighs in at around 3500 Lbs, start downsizing on axles & motor, besides its your weight that will hold you back or brakes you in the first place. Just my opinion...

[93 Krawler]

Ex cab linked both ends makes for LONG wb... My buddies is 12 9 and be tough to get it much shorter and still have good approach/departure angles... Mind is 116" and right where I wanted it

That's sweet!! I like the idea of a tube frame. I didn't realize the s-10 ext cab was so long. I was wanting to go a little less than the 117" mine is now. My biggest issue now besides being on the heavy side is it's way too long. Linking it would fix that. I figure I can remove around 30" off the length if I link it. The width at the sliders can be an issue at times, but not a huge problem.If I end up doing an s-10, the tube frame and non ext cab would be the ticket.

There are things I can do now to save weight. I know my stock doors are heavy. There's an easy 150 lbs. I just don't know if it's worth it to build a whole new rig to save 500 or so pounds.

If you don't mind, could you throw a tape across your rock sliders and let me know what it is. If what I read online was correct, my cab is only 8" wider than the s-10. That doesn't sound right. Thanks

[93 Krawler]

Your engine, axles, frame size are what's killin you on weight, my rig weighs in at around 3500 Lbs, start downsizing on axles & motor, besides its your weight that will hold you back or brakes you in the first place. Just my opinion...

I hear ya... I doubt I will ever run less than what my current drivetrain is. I just need another 100HP. :thumbup:

[humpy]

Yea ill measure tomoris mornin when I'm at my shop... Those are tons and 43s ...it will be fairly low for a truggy rig... 23" belly and 76" to top of cage...

[Redriverranger]

Mine is over 5000, I am sure. Ext cab small truck, wheelbase=131. You have to ditch a lot of creature comforts and tools/parts to get the weight down. Good luck. A thousand pounds is tough.

[twiztedzuki]

I hear ya... I doubt I will ever run less than what my current drivetrain is. I just need another 100HP. :thumbup:

That is my thoughts exactly!! more motor!

[93 Krawler]

Yea ill measure tomoris mornin when I'm at my shop... Those are tons and 43s ...it will be fairly low for a truggy rig... 23" belly and 76" to top of cage...

The top of my cage is 84" and belly is 22" on 39.5. It's 15'3" long and slider width is 76"


Mine is over 5000, I am sure. Ext cab small truck, wheelbase=131. You have to ditch a lot of creature comforts and tools/parts to get the weight down. Good luck. A thousand pounds is tough.
Yeah, I would miss my big box with tools, fluids etc. Sounds like if you want a V8 drivetrain and tons your gonna be heavy. I could get it under 5000 with not to much trouble. The motor I want would come close by itself.


That is my thoughts exactly!! more motor!

The stock 5.7 tbi with 155000 miles on it is tired. I definetly need a boost in HP. I found an all aluminum 5.3 take out motor for $1300 on Ebay. It has 325 HP. The 5.7 had 205 HP. This engine has to lighter than my all cast iron turd.

[underpowered]

Cab buggy is best of both worlds.

having a large rig on tons and big tires but keeping it light is tough.

i want to weigh my beast, i am betting about the same as your truck at about 5200lbs or so. it is wider than your truck though, slider to slider is 80", but belly is 24 with an 84" roof height.

my next ride will be all tube, either with cab, or even just full side panels.

[yellowjacket]

i like where this thread is going..just saying!

[93 Krawler]

Cab buggy is best of both worlds.

having a large rig on tons and big tires but keeping it light is tough.

i want to weigh my beast, i am betting about the same as your truck at about 5200lbs or so. it is wider than your truck though, slider to slider is 80", but belly is 24 with an 84" roof height.

my next ride will be all tube, either with cab, or even just full side panels.

The last time i went to Harlan, I stopped by the CAT scales and got it weighed. I already knew what the trailer weighed hooked to the truck. The nearest gravel pit might do it for you.

[93 Krawler]

Since my rig hasn't sold yet, I don't see any point of giving it away.(low ball offers) I am probably going to keep it. So that leaves me wanting tires. I'm running 39.5 TSL's now, and wanted to try something different this time. I want the 40" LTB, but Interco isn't making them yet, so that doesn't leave much. That leaves an Irok or Bogger unless I use a different brand. Any ideas?

[WrenchMonkey]

Sorry it didn't sell like you hoped, but I am glad you're keeping it. Do like that rig...

I love my LTBs. You can't find a set of 40s anywhere? And no idea when you could?

4WP lists them as available? http://www.4wheelparts.com/Tires/16-40-16LT-LTB.aspx?t_c=13&t_s=158&t_pt=100812&t_pn=SSTLTB-204

[underpowered]

Boggers are great for around here, but their weakness shows when you get into Rocks. i'd be happy with a stickier compound Bogger.

If you can't find LTB's, Boggers would be my next choice. iroks would be behind other brands

[93 Krawler]

Sorry it didn't sell like you hoped, but I am glad you're keeping it. Do like that rig...

I love my LTBs. You can't find a set of 40s anywhere? And no idea when you could?

4WP lists them as available? http://www.4wheelparts.com/Tires/16-40-16LT-LTB.aspx?t_c=13&t_s=158&t_pt=100812&t_pn=SSTLTB-204

I see a lot of companies will sell them, but do they actually have them. National tire and wheel says they show what is actually available, and 4wheelonline.com shows the same as NTW. 34" is the biggest they have now. They are slowly bringing the tires back.


Boggers are great for around here, but their weakness shows when you get into Rocks. i'd be happy with a stickier compound Bogger.

If you can't find LTB's, Boggers would be my next choice. iroks would be behind other brands

The TSL's did great on the rocks, but just ok in the mud. I would destroy a set of Irocks, so not an option. I see people running Boggers in the rear, and TSL's in the front. Anyone here ever tried that? I wish I could fit 42's in, but I would have to link the front and push the axle forward to get them to fit.

[underpowered]

The TSL's did great on the rocks, but just ok in the mud. I would destroy a set of Irocks, so not an option. I see people running Boggers in the rear, and TSL's in the front. Anyone here ever tried that? I wish I could fit 42's in, but I would have to link the front and push the axle forward to get them to fit.


I ran cut boggers rear/ TSL's front for a while on my old XJ and loved it. great combo IMO. TSL's helped greatly with steering issues many complain about with boggers.

Currently running TN/Aetna cut TSL's and IMO are almost as good but i am afraid of cutting a rear with how Open they are in the middle. would require a TON of time to cut them however.


Hopefully i can make a run with you all this year, i would be another Fullsize in the mix.

[twiztedzuki]

if ur 39.5s aint wore out buy good groover and put aetna cut on'm so you get to that hook dirt sense it gets trailerd

[93 Krawler]

if ur 39.5s aint wore out buy good groover and put aetna cut on'm so you get to that hook dirt sense it gets trailerd

These tires are about 4 years old. I grooved them last summer, but just kept with the same tread pattern. It made a big improvement, but the outer lugs are rounded off.

I found a place that shows the LTB's are backordered till mid April. http://interco.factoryoutletstore.com/cat/43244/39-Inch-Super-Swamper-Tires-.html?container_list=71789,71802,71943,72085,72086 ,72282,78413,78729,79005,79950,80178,80633&page=1

I was doing some measuring to see if I could fit 42's up front, and the leaf springs pins aren't centered. They are offset about 3". If I flipped them around I could probably fit 42's in. That would give me a 120" wheelbase, which I really don't want. So I'm back to 40's. An 18" bogger in the rear is freakishly large to me. Sure wish they were 15" like the TSL. It looks like I either go down to a 38.5 SX, stay the 39.5 TSL, or use the 40" LTB.
I would like to know why Interco's tire sizes are all over the place... :at-wits'end:

[kyrel69]

if you can make the 42's fit I would run those. I have a buddy that went form 38's to 42 and it makes a lot of difference on how well you can get around.

[93 Krawler]

if you can make the 42's fit I would run those. I have a buddy that went form 38's to 42 and it makes a lot of difference on how well you can get around.

I could fit a TSL SX - 15/42-15LT in easy enough. It's only 41.5" tall. One of the things that worry me about 42's on 15" rims is all that side wall showing. I'll get more tire flex, but wouldn't it make them more susceptible to slicing? According to that website, they would be available mid March.

[kyrel69]

I could fit a TSL SX - 15/42-15LT in easy enough. It's only 41.5" tall. One of the things that worry me about 42's on 15" rims is all that side wall showing. I'll get more tire flex, but wouldn't it make them more susceptible to slicing? According to that website, they would be available mid March.

I think the only reason they might be more susceptible to being sliced is because there is more area to get hit, not because they are any weaker. I know when my 38sx are worn out I will be moving up to 42's then :thumbsUp:

[underpowered]

it would only be roughly 1 more inch of sidewall over your current 39.5's. you already have a bunch of sidewall.


42's will be my next tire after the 38.5's.

[93 Krawler]

If I get creative, I could make 42's fit without moving the axle forward. I could notch the firewall some more and do something with the cab mount. This sounds like a plan. :thumbsUp:

[93 Krawler]

Site says these are on national backorder, but will be ready for mid March shipment. I'm not so sure I believe them. Super Swamper TSL SX - 15/42-15LT - If they are, they'll be on by the Harlan trip in May. :thumbsUp:

[93 Krawler]

I'm not sure what to get. Most of the tires I want they don't sell right now. Who knows how long it will be before Interco makes the tires I want.

I might have to go with the TSL and Bogger combo. If I do the 42" TSL up front, and the 42.5 Bogger out back, what will that extra 1/2" do to the drivetrain if anything? Thinking about going back with the 39.5s, but I hate the Bogger being 18" wide. Anyone know if you can put an 18" tire on a 10" rim?

[underpowered]

i run a 16" wide on 10" wheels. i don't see 18" as a big issue on 10" either

your truck is offroad only right? if so, you will never notice 1/2". general Rule of thumb is to keep your gear ratios/tire sizes within 2 %. keep it under a 2% difference, and the difference is negligible. that is about a 1.2% difference in height, and since circumference is a direct relationship to diameter, same applies.

[blazerbrad]

I don't see any issue with mounting an 18" wide tire on an 10" wheel. I run the 39.5x15.5 and a buddy runs 42x15.5 TSL's on 8" wide rims with no issues for several years...so if you can run 15.5 on 8 you can run 18 on 10.

In pictures those 42" Boggers look really skinny and the 42" TSL look wide, would think it might look a little weird if that is true if you put TSL front and Bogger rear (of course I'm talking looks so it might not do as well at a car show:D). The slight difference in tire height should not be an issue.

[93 Krawler]

i run a 16" wide on 10" wheels. i don't see 18" as a big issue on 10" either

your truck is offroad only right? if so, you will never notice 1/2". general Rule of thumb is to keep your gear ratios/tire sizes within 2 %. keep it under a 2% difference, and the difference is negligible. that is about a 1.2% difference in height, and since circumference is a direct relationship to diameter, same applies.

Yeah, dedicated off-road rig. That's what I was thinking, but wanted more input.

If there's anyone in the country that has them outside of that guy down in TN, its going to be 4wheelparts. All the other places you mentions aren't even direct with Interco. 4wheelonline is some little office in Florida that never lays their hands on an actual part, that factoryoutletstore is the same thing. Some guy on the 20th floor of a building in NYC. NTB is direct and carry actual product, but don't carry much of Interco's stuff since the Denman fiasco several years back. Pretty much the same with everyone else outside 4WheelParts.

4wheelparts Swamper inventory never evens sees the Interco warehouse in Louisiana. They bypass that and have them shipped in direct from Mexico. I'd give them a call and see what they've got.

Called 4wheelparts and no deal. Said there is no ETA on them either. They have plenty of boggers, TSLs and Iroks.

I don't see any issue with mounting an 18" wide tire on an 10" wheel. I run the 39.5x15.5 and a buddy runs 42x15.5 TSL's on 8" wide rims with no issues for several years...so if you can run 15.5 on 8 you can run 18 on 10.

In pictures those 42" Boggers look really skinny and the 42" TSL look wide, would think it might look a little weird if that is true if you put TSL front and Bogger rear (of course I'm talking looks so it might not do as well at a car show:D). The slight difference in tire height should not be an issue.

The 42.5" Bogger is only 13.5" wide, so you're right.

93Krawler, I looked back a couple of pages to see if you have a bead lock setup but didn't see that you did. Did I miss it? I only ask because lack of bead locks had impact on my tire setup.

Yes I have bead locks. Look back to page 1.



For $138 more than the 39.5's, I can get the 42's. If I go 42's, I'll have to move the front axle forward and increase my wheelbase by 2-3". I'd like to have 42's, but not a 120" wheelbase... :at-wits'end: Unless down the road I link the rear and shorten the wheelbase. Then I could remove 2' of the back that I needed for the shackles. Think I just talked myself into it...:thumbsUp:

[humpy]

The 42 boggers are very narrow especially where the actual tread is... The sidewall is wider than the actual tread... I didn't like the looks it function of them

[93 Krawler]

The 42 boggers are very narrow especially where the actual tread is... The sidewall is wider than the actual tread... I didn't like the looks it function of them

The specs say the tread is 10", same as my rim. lol. That would look dumb as hell.

I really want to run a bogger in the rear because my truck is heavy and that sucks when it's muddy. Gravity is a *****. An 18" wide bogger would get real good traction. If I do 42's, then it'll have to be 4- 42" TSL's. I swore I wouldn't run 4 TSL's again. Such decisions...

[underpowered]

aetna cut TSL = Almost as good as a bogger IMO in the mud.

[Flint]

The Aetna cut looks as if it would be a good compromise cut for TSL's. I'm not convinced it would be as good as a bogger but it might give better bite, better cleaning for a TSL. I think I'll research it for possible use on my TSL's on front/ boggers on back.

[93 Krawler]

aetna cut TSL = Almost as good as a bogger IMO in the mud.

I've seen this many times, but I'd have a hard time paying $450 for a tire and cutting half the tread off.

[Flint]

The concept of cutting tread off a 450 dollar tire doesn't bother me IF it actually improves performance. I've been spending money on the jeep to improve it since I bought the jeep.

The change looks like it might improve thrust, help cleaning and not impact directional control for steering. Unfortunately I don't know that to be true and haven't read many reports as of now. I also worry that cutting the tire to that extent would accelerate wear or cause premature failure.

It's something to think about...

[humpy]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/09/y5ezaru9.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/09/me2e9e9y.jpg

The 44 blem bogger rear and 43 Sx front

Themselves match the 43 with half inch.... I like the fat boggers myself

[humpy]

If u wanna better pics I can take some when it comes back from exhaust shop

[93 Krawler]

The 44 looks good that wide. Looks proportional. Are the rims 17 x 12?
Muffler shop... Does that mean it's almost ready to wheel?

The 39.5 x 15 TSL Bogger combo will run me $2050 shipped. A set of 43 x 17 SX will run me $2350 shipped. If I can get enough from my tires and rims to cover new rims, I would do it. Anyone have some 17x10 rims with beadlocks they want to sell or trade? :thumbsUp:

[humpy]

The 44 looks good that wide. Looks proportional. Are the rims 17 x 12?
Muffler shop... Does that mean it's almost ready to wheel?

The 39.5 x 15 TSL Bogger combo will run me $2050 shipped. A set of 43 x 17 SX will run me $2350 shipped. If I can get enough from my tires and rims to cover new rims, I would do it. Anyone have some 17x10 rims with beadlocks they want to sell or trade? :thumbsUp:

16.5 h1s... It aint far off from bein done just don't have time to finish been workin ton of hours .... That great American dream of small business ownership

[underpowered]

I've seen this many times, but I'd have a hard time paying $450 for a tire and cutting half the tread off.

i can understand that. i believe i would have that same issue if i ever bought new tires.

[humpy]

i can understand that. i believe i would have that same issue if i ever bought new tires.

It's only $$ lol if I had 2 more blem boggers I these woukd already b cut but they wear out so much faster and with not bein able to buy em I kinda want em to last... Hoping they start makin 47 Ltb again

[mckeddie]

Didn't you have a set once?

[humpy]

Didn't you have a set once?

Yes but I don't wanna run a tire I can't replace... If I cut one o these boggers I'll put 43 Sx back ok rear

[dropitlow88]

looking good humpy, thanks for the tank!

[kkoepper]

Took the buggy to Redbird State Riding area (southern IN) on Sunday. Pretty sloppy, but not as bad as I thought it might be. The trails are pretty tight there and the buggy is pretty wide, so I was frequently having to pivot off trees. The Pitbull Rockers did great. No damage to the sidewalls and they cleaned out very well. I had read that they don't do well in mud, but that wasn't the case for me. Spin em and they stayed clean and got excellent traction. Happy with em so far.

[93 Krawler]

I decided to stay with 39.5's, so I'm doing TSL's in the front, and Boggers in the back.

I'm also going to put on the Edelbrock multi-port injection setup I've had sitting around. It's a TBI to MPI kit. Also going to put in a new performer cam that matches the EFI setup. That should wake it up a little.

[Nuts]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/09/y5ezaru9.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/09/me2e9e9y.jpg

The 44 blem bogger rear and 43 Sx front

Themselves match the 43 with half inch.... I like the fat boggers myself

44x18x16.5? That's what I got but yours look skinnier???

[humpy]

44x18x16.5? That's what I got but yours look skinnier???

Story I my life lol

[93 Krawler]

Got my tires today.

7526

Get my new rock rings tomorrow. These things are done...

7527

Got my multi-port injection and cam in.

7528

Should have my tires back on my rig tomorrow night. :thumbsUp:

7529

[WrenchMonkey]

Daaaaaaaammnnn...

[timido]

Been busy:thumbsUp:

[Runoveru2]

I'm ready to see it in action at Harlan in a couple weeks. .. it just can't get here quick enough.

[93 Krawler]

I'm ready to see it in action at Harlan in a couple weeks. .. it just can't get here quick enough.

I know, I'm ready for some Harlan wheeling.

Also plated, gusseted, and welded my spring hangers on so I don't tear one off like I did in Lions den last year.

The hanger after Lions den and a trail fix so I could keep going.

7530

The back is plated and has gussets to the frame.

7531


7532

I'm ready for Lions den again. :thumbsUp:

[bbtank45]

Kevin, lookin awesome buddy!....I dont mind my boggers at all, other than i wish they were a little bigger. Youre going to love that setup.....Did u get them from GoForth?


Im going to try Lions Den this year for the first time :applause:

[93 Krawler]

Got them from national tire and wheel.

Sent from my Radar 4G using Board Express

[Redriverranger]

After you drop off the ledge, that first pass by the outcropping on the left and the tree is getting real narrow. I wouldn't worry about putting any fresh paint on before this run. The earth appears to be moving...

[93 Krawler]

After you drop off the ledge, that first pass by the outcropping on the left and the tree is getting real narrow. I wouldn't worry about putting any fresh paint on before this run. The earth appears to be moving...

Great, I had a hell of a time getting past it last year...

[underpowered]

Lions Den is one i want to give a shot in the ol' k5.

[93 Krawler]

Finally... I'll have traction!!! :thumbsUp:

7541

[Runoveru2]

Now that you have traction... you gonna hit little Jagger with me?

[93 Krawler]

Now that you have traction... you gonna hit little Jagger with me?

I have the nuts to follow your ruts. :thumbsUp: But not till the last day. :laughing:

[94Dodge Truggy]

Now that you have traction... you gonna hit little Jagger with me?

Little Jagger was a fun climb! Almost made it up but kept slipping on my own tranny fluid.

[bbtank45]

i have a feeling this is going to be an epic Harlan trip!.....Kevin, after riding in your corbeaus @ Windrock for a little bit, i purchased a set and installed them this past weekend. Great advice!

[93 Krawler]

i have a feeling this is going to be an epic Harlan trip!.....Kevin, after riding in your corbeaus @ Windrock for a little bit, i purchased a set and installed them this past weekend. Great advice!

You won't regret buying suspension seats. Your back will thank you.

[93 Krawler]

After much debate about propane or a new motor, I chose motor. After the trip to Rush this past weekend, I was done with the POS stock engine. So I bought this 04 Avalanche Z71 with a 5.3 for $1400. Should be ready for Harlan in May.

8135

8136

8137

[underpowered]

LS is the way to go. the power increase and reliability is awesome. If the stock TBI in mine ever gives up, this is the route i plan.

[93 Krawler]

Got the engine and trans out. Now the fun part, separating the harness. :sweatin:

8143

I ended up with an extra 5.3 out of the deal. It is a drive by cable. The one from the Avalanche is drive by wire. Not sure which one I want yet.

8144

[93 Krawler]

I have most of the extra crap removed from the harness. Man that's a lot of wires... :whew!:

8147

8148

[beer_goggles_009]

That's allot of spaghetti. Harlan in only a month away !

[WrenchMonkey]

It looks a lot worse than it really is.

Good, cause it looks pretty bad!

[93 Krawler]

Good, cause it looks pretty bad!

It already looks better. Most of that extra wire is gone. The hard part will be getting the computer to the passenger side inside the cab. The PCM was originally right next to the drivers wheel well. It will be in good shape by the end of tomorrow.

[Ky Mudhunter]

Kudos, on building your own harness from stock! I made mine for the LT1 swap and had to do the same thing with moving the computer from the driver's front to the passenger rear of the engine compartment. By building my own I learned so much more about how the fuel injection system actually worked.

[93 Krawler]

By building my own I learned so much more about how the fuel injection system actually worked.

Exactly, which also helps tracing problems down in the future.

[93 Krawler]

Got the harness done. This is much better. :thumbup:
8155

8156

Let the fun begin...
8157

[93 Krawler]

Dropped the PCM off to a guy in White Oak that will remove all the BS I don't need for $90.. http://lt1pcmtuning.com/ We'll see how he does.

Ordered the fuse block for the engine today. Should work out good. http://www.waytekwire.com/item/46345/MINI-FUSE-AND-MICRO-RELAY-RTMR/

There is no way I will have this ready for memorial day at Harlan. :straight-face: Looks like I'm RZR bound.

[93 Krawler]

After several hours of running the engine, there was a small amount of steam coming out of the exhaust. To be safe, I tore the engine down to replace the head gaskets and also check for cracks. Bought some spot check from magnaflux to see if there are any cracks. Going to lap the valves in if all is good.
8158

8159

[underpowered]

04 was during the years GM used Castech heads, which are known for hairline cracks in them.

[93 Krawler]

Mine look like this. Hopefully this is a good thing.
8165

Got my clamp on VSS ring. Looks like I have everything I need to get this done. Time to get busy.

8166

[93 Krawler]

I checked the heads for cracks and didn't see any. I did this as a preliminary check in hopes of seeing something obvious. Since I didn't, off they go to the machine shop to be cleaned, pressure tested, and checked for flatness. I'm taking them tomorrow to Performance Engineering in Hamilton. I've heard good things about them. https://www.facebook.com/PerformanceEngineeringLLC

[93 Krawler]

Got the heads back. They said no cracks, but needed to be milled.
Lapped the valves in myself.

8215

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8217

[93 Krawler]

Got the the engine, trans, and t-case out. Time to put it back together. :thumbup:

8218

8219

[93 Krawler]

The VSS that is on the tail of the t-case won't work on this setup. I had to drill and tap the t-case adapter for a VSS. This will keep the correct speed even in low gear so I don't have messed up shift points. The t-case has a switch that sends a signal to the PCM so it knows it's in low gear, but the new pcm doesn't have this signal so I can't use it.

8220

8221

My tie rod and steering ram was behind the axle, and I had minimal clearance between the ram and oil pan on the old engine. The 5.3 will be moved forward 1" because of the new t-case adapter is 1" thicker. So the tie rod and ram had to be moved up front for oil pan clearance. Mark, aka Waffle, moved it up front for me. Now I have to watch out for rocks hitting the tie rod. The plus side is I can lower my bump stops some since I don't have to worry about my oil pan smashing my ram anymore.

8222

[93 Krawler]

Got the engine done and dropped in.

8241

The PCM is going where the coolant bottle is. I will have to get a smaller one and relocate it. It should fit nicely there.

8242

This is what I'm using for my fuse block.

8243

Trans and transfer case are in. Thanks to the engine mount adapters, everything lined back up in the original locations.

8244
8245

So far the only things that didn't bolt back up are the trans shifter linkage and the exhaust. The new trans has the module on the side so the bracket hits it. The exhaust should be an easy fix.

8246

[monkeystrong]

This is really cool Kevin.

[93 Krawler]

This is really cool Kevin.

It's taking a lot longer that I anticipated. :sweatin: I'm missing wheeling trips. :crying:

[93 Krawler]

I have my fuse block wired, and only a few left to run in the cab. I can't seen to find anywhere that will tell you how big the supply wire should be going the fuse block. It is running the basic engine stuff, but not the starter or any fans. Just injectors, coils, trans, pcm, MAF, TAC, O2's ect... I have a #2 awg running from my battery to a factory junction block just above the PCM and new fuse block. My plan is to run a wire from the factory fuse block that is key on power to a relay that will power the new fuse block, and grab the power from the always on #2 wire above the PCM. I didn't think it would be good to draw from the factory fuse block to power the new one. What size relay should I use and what size wire should supply the block? I'm more familiar with house wiring than I am with 12v auto wiring.

[93 Krawler]

Here is a chart, but I still don't know what the load will be on the fuse block. The wires running the injectors and most everything else are small, like 16-18 gauge. I have 7 - 15 amp circuits and 1 - 20 amp. That's 125 amps. So according to the chart, I only need a 10 awg supply since it is 18" long. Anybody...

http://www.offroaders.com/tech/12-volt-wire-gauge-amps.htm
Amps @ 12 Volts LENGTH OF WIRE
American Wire Gauge (AWG)
3' 5' 7' 10' 15' 20' 25'
0 to1 18 18 18 18 18 18 18
1.5 18 18 18 18 18 18 18
2 18 18 18 18 18 18 18
3 18 18 18 18 18 18 18
4 18 18 18 18 18 18 18
5 18 18 18 18 18 18 18
6 18 18 18 18 18 18 16
7 18 18 18 18 18 18 16
8 18 18 18 18 18 16 16
10 18 18 18 18 16 16 14
11 18 18 18 18 16 16 14
12 18 18 18 18 16 16 14
15 18 18 18 18 14 14 12
18 18 18 16 16 14 14 12
20 18 18 16 16 14 12 10
22 18 18 16 14 12 12 10
24 18 18 16 14 12 12 10
30 18 16 14 12 10 10 10
36 16 14 14 12 10 10 10
40 16 14 12 12 10 10 8
50 16 14 12 10 10 10 8
100 12 12 10 10 6 6 4
150 10 10 8 8 4 4 2
200 10 8 8 6 4 4 2

[underpowered]

when dealing with electric, bigger is always better. especially when dealing with DC. also, if it is a sustained load you want to go bigger as well. No way i would run 125 amps through 10g wire. chances are you are not sustained amps, so any of your individual breakers should trip before you hit full current pull


I know industrial wiring, 10g is 30 amp wire, for 125 we use 2awg. granted this is 120-480v vs 12v, but an amp is an amp no matter the voltage. If it were mine, i'd use no less than 6awg on a feed such as that.

[93 Krawler]

when dealing with electric, bigger is always better. especially when dealing with DC. also, if it is a sustained load you want to go bigger as well. No way i would run 125 amps through 10g wire. chances are you are not sustained amps, so any of your individual breakers should trip before you hit full current pull


I know industrial wiring, 10g is 30 amp wire, for 125 we use 2awg. granted this is 120-480v vs 12v, but an amp is an amp no matter the voltage. If it were mine, i'd use no less than 6awg on a feed such as that.

I know what you mean, I have 2/0 for my battery cables.

My factory battery cable was like #2-4, and there was a #6 that ran everything but the starter. I think the charge wire is a #8. If you add all the power wires that come out of the loom on the 5.3, I'd say they are about the size of a #8 max. I don't even see how a 18g wire can handle 10-15 amps. DC is confusing as far as loads.

In a house panel, the breakers add up to more than the the service size. Does the same apply to DC. If you add all the fuses in any car, I bet it adds up to more that the battery cable size. I guess wattage plays in there somewhere. Like high power car amps. they take huge wires.

I'm with you, go big. I'm getting a 150 amp relay, and run a #4 to it. If that's not enough, then I give up.

[93 Krawler]

My winch came with 4 ga for 320 amps.

160 amps, 1920 watts, needs a #8. Ugh, my head hurts... That's a lot of watts... I don't think I'm anywhere close to that.

[underpowered]

I know what you mean, I have 2/0 for my battery cables.

My factory battery cable was like #2-4, and there was a #6 that ran everything but the starter. I think the charge wire is a #8. If you add all the power wires that come out of the loom on the 5.3, I'd say they are about the size of a #8 max. I don't even see how a 18g wire can handle 10-15 amps. DC is confusing as far as loads.

In a house panel, the breakers add up to more than the the service size. Does the same apply to DC. If you add all the fuses in any car, I bet it adds up to more that the battery cable size. I guess wattage plays in there somewhere. Like high power car amps. they take huge wires.

I'm with you, go big. I'm getting a 150 amp relay, and run a #4 to it. If that's not enough, then I give up.

i dont think the same thing applies to your vehicle as your house. In your house, you won't ever be running everything in your house at the same time. have every light on, something in every outlet running ac, heat, dryer, stove, washer, fans, etc.... but in vehicle, you certainly can be. it is possible to be driving at night running your lights, wipers, heater/ac, stereo, powering your engine, fans, fuel pump all while winching yourself out. So there is a chance you could see near full load on all systems at once in a vehicle compared to your house.

wattage=amps x voltage, so it does play a roll in it all, just a different way of stating amps. people seem to like seeing watts better than amps. they prefer a 55 watt light over a 4.6 amp one even though they are the same thing stated differently.

[93 Krawler]

The guy that built the one in this pic does all kinds of harness building. The main wire feeding the 30 amp relay looks to be a #10. He only has 4 fuses, a fuel pump relay, and the switched main power relay. I see this all over the net. I don't see anyone running big wires to run the engine harness. Maybe they are wrong, or maybe I'm over thinking this...

8255

[93 Krawler]

Getting my stock gauges to work was a pain. The stock 93 temp sender is 1/4" NPT, and the 04 is a 12 x 1.5 thread. They make an adapter, but everyone complained that it suck out so far that the reading was off. I saw one guy took the stock one and milled it down and threaded it to fit the 5.3 heads. So I did it that way. Worked great. I can use an adapter for the oil pressure sender.
8256

Removing the over flow bottle left a perfect spot for the ECM. The fuse block fit perfect over the spot where the old pcm wires went through the firewall. Now I need to find a smaller coolant bottle to mount.

8257
8258

Made some good progress thanks to Waffle coming over to help. Got the exhaust done, steering lines back on and filled, radiator in and filled, trans lines ran, and then the best part, starting it up. Runs great. It's throwing an engine code. The MAF circuit is low or something like that. Hooked up the scanner and it says the IAT temp is around 230 degrees. That is way off. The engine didn't have the MAF sensor, so I got one from u-pull. It looks like it needs to go back. Still have to make a better air intake duct. The stock one is too bulky. There is a lot of little stuff to do now. It will be back on the trail real soon. :thumbup:
8259

[93 Krawler]

The MAF wasn't bad, the pcm ground that goes to the sensor was grounded to the chassis. Oops... It was an easy fix. Runs great now. :thumbup: I should have it done by the end of this weekend. Might take it to Haspin for a test run.

[93 Krawler]

Ok, here's a good one. I added a vss to the tail of the trans so the pcm wouldn't mess up the shifts when in 4 Low. There is no vss in any other spot. When I put it in 4 low, the spedo is off and it shifts super quick. How is this possible? The trans tail should not be affected by the tcase. I don't get it. Anyone?

[underpowered]

speed is off as your VSS is now before the T-case. so you will be going slow, but your VSS is still reading as if your setup is 1:1, not 2.72:1 that it is.

Even on my 4wd vehicles, the Vss has always been on the t-case and usually a switched contact in the PCM to recognize it is in low range to adjust shift points while still keeping the speedo correct since it is on the final output, not before the lower gearing the t-case provides

[93 Krawler]

speed is off as your VSS is now before the T-case. so you will be going slow, but your VSS is still reading as if your setup is 1:1, not 2.72:1 that it is.

Even on my 4wd vehicles, the Vss has always been on the t-case and usually a switched contact in the PCM to recognize it is in low range to adjust shift points while still keeping the speedo correct since it is on the final output, not before the lower gearing the t-case provides

The speedo and shifting is spot on in 2wd and 4 high. It is about 3x off (30=90) in 4 low. It acts as if the vss is still in the t-case. There are no wires on the t-case or t-case shifter at all. The speed of the trans output should not be affected by the t-case being in low, but somehow it is. Advanced adapters sells this kit http://www.advanceadapters.com/products/716073e--4l60e--vss-40-pulse-kit-for-stock-gm-output-shaft/. I ordered the clamp on reluctor ring from them. I already had the VSS. This makes no sense at all. There is no way that the pcm knows the t-case is in low gear. It must be psychic...

[blazerbrad]

Sounds like the issue is because it does not know the t-case is in 4 low.

With the speed sensor on the trans lets say that when in high range, third gear (1:1) in the trans, and 2,000 engine rpm the speed sensor sends out a signal that equates to 45 mph. You now shift into low range, third gear in the trans, and 2,000 engine rpm and the speed sensor sends out the exact same signal and makes the ECM think you are still going 45 mph. However since the t-case is in low range the vehicle is actually only going about 16 mph (2.72 times slower...or about 3 times).

Do you still have the VSS on the tailhousing of the t-case that you could hook up?

[underpowered]

Sounds like the issue is because it does not know the t-case is in 4 low.

With the speed sensor on the trans lets say that when in high range, third gear (1:1) in the trans, and 2,000 engine rpm the speed sensor sends out a signal that equates to 45 mph. You now shift into low range, third gear in the trans, and 2,000 engine rpm and the speed sensor sends out the exact same signal and makes the ECM think you are still going 45 mph. However since the t-case is in low range the vehicle is actually only going about 16 mph (2.72 times slower...or about 3 times).

Do you still have the VSS on the tailhousing of the t-case that you could hook up?

this is what i was saying, he just said it better.

your Vss is before the gear reduction of the t-case so therefore the speedo is not accounting for the 2.72:1 gearing of the T-case when in low range. IMO use the VSS for the T-case and you should be just fine.

[93 Krawler]

This all makes sense. The only reason I put it in the trans was from what I read. Multiple articles said You had to put it in the trans tail. I will hook the one back up in the t-case and see how it works.

[93 Krawler]

Does anyone have a clue as to why my IAT is reading is so low? It's not the MAF, I've switched it with one from a different vehicle. Mine also reads correct on that vehicle. The temps shown are basically room temp, key on, not running. I checked the MAF temp and it was 74 degrees. At least the coolant temp is right.
Would a larger gauge wire mess with values? The black signal wire from the MAF to the pcm needed to be lengthened, so I used a thicker wire to do it. I started looking for a problem because it was throwing a code for bank 1 & 2 being rich. It only seemed to throw the code when I was stomping the gas from a dead stop. I think the rich problem is coming from the fact that I am running a t-stat that runs at 182 fully open and the IAT reading cooler than the air really is. It feels a little sluggish when it takes off WOT in 2wd.

8275

[blazerbrad]

Sounds like you ruled out the IAT sensor itself and generally if the circuit is shorted or open you will get an extreme signal one way or the other (like -30 or 300).

Next step is to verify the reference signal. Should be getting a 5 volt signal to the sensor. The PCM supplies both the 5 V and the ground.
Not sure about the wire size causing the issue. If the IAT is reading too low that should correspond to a higher resistance, and I would expect the larger wire to have a lower resistance. Wouldn't be surprised if you are getting straight battery voltage as I think that this increase in voltage compared to the desired 5V would cause an increase in resistance that corresponds to the temp reading you are getting.

[93 Krawler]

http://ls1tech.com/forums/pcm-diagnostics-tuning/430223-p0113-iat-sensor-high-circuit-input.html

Read this link for some info and it talks about some details with the iat. Remember that last sensor you had that was grounded to chassis and not to the pcm? Maybe thats the case here or maybe a wire is open somewhere. Anyway, it talks about proper volt and ohm readings for the iat.

The MAF was the sensor that I grounded the signal from the PCM. It was black so I tied it in with the others.

Sounds like you ruled out the IAT sensor itself and generally if the circuit is shorted or open you will get an extreme signal one way or the other (like -30 or 300).

Next step is to verify the reference signal. Should be getting a 5 volt signal to the sensor. The PCM supplies both the 5 V and the ground.
Not sure about the wire size causing the issue. If the IAT is reading too low that should correspond to a higher resistance, and I would expect the larger wire to have a lower resistance. Wouldn't be surprised if you are getting straight battery voltage as I think that this increase in voltage compared to the desired 5V would cause an increase in resistance that corresponds to the temp reading you are getting.

I will check the voltage tonight.

[93 Krawler]

There are 5 wires going to the MAF. The pink wire is key on power at 16.42v
The yellow and tan wires on both vehicles with key on, not running, MAF plug disconnected were 5.82 volts. The rest of the tests were done with them running fully warm. I checked the temp of the air filter on mine and it was 105.


-------------------Mine-------------Wifes
IAT temp---------73---------------93
Yellow------------3.14-------------5.06
Tan---------------3.09-------------1.90
Pink
Black
Black/white

Wifes car
8276

[93 Krawler]

Took the truck out for a test run and it did pretty good. It threw codes all day about the MAF low circuit, but it still ran pretty good. It needs some fine tuning. The hill in the video was difficult because you started dragged your diffs about 3/4 of the way up. Took a bunch of attempts, but I finally made it up.

gmIzUpfjXlE

[blazerbrad]

The concept is pretty basic as you are turning a couple solenoids on and off to just shift between the gears. The purpose of the computer is to control and adjust the shift parameters....basically up and down shift timing and shift firmness based on speed, engine rpm, load, etc...

I believe what Kevin is talking about is if everything is working 100% properly the transmission will still upshift into 2nd gear when you reach maximum RPM even if you have the shifter pulled down into 1. In some situations that is not what you want to happen and I think the big hill climb is one of those. It would shift into 2nd and you could hear the engine bog down. It would also be nice to start from a stop in 2nd gear sometimes.

Back to the ECM receiving a signal that the t-case it is in 4 low, I was curious if this was the case and finally got a chance to confirm there is a signal that adjusts parameters if it is low range, just as said above. If the VSS was at the output of the transfer case on the donor vehicle (which assume it was since he had to modify the transmission from the donor to get a VSS) then it is not changing the speed signal itself, but would be changing the algorithm that controls the transmission shift points (which are based on engine RPM, vehicle speed, load, etc...).

[93 Krawler]

The pcm will shift out of manual 1st to 2nd at the WOT setting specified in the tables. You can start in 2nd, but if stomp on it it will kick into 1st. The easiest way to solve this is to use a shift kit. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/trg-4l60e-hd2/overview/ It is exactly what I want. The last kit I did I set the shift firmness to towing so it didn't snap hard. It was fine in 2 hi, but 4 lo was was harsh at higher rpms. I might leave the firmness stock and have the firmness adjusted in the pcm. I do think hooking up the 4 lo wire will help with shifting in drive, but that's it. For now, I will hook the 4 lo wire up and deal with it. I just changed the fluid and flushed it out with Dex 6, so I'm thinking this winter I'll do something. That was like $100 in trans fluid...

[93 Krawler]

The wire I should've left intact. DOH!!!

8378

[93 Krawler]

I pulled the harness mostly back out so I could run the 4 lo wire and see what the deal was with the MAF sensor. I was thinking that I attached one to many black/white ground wires together. GM uses black and black/white wires for sensor wires too, not just grounds. Well, that wasn't the problem, they were all good. When I shortened the harness, I staggered the solder connections so there wasn't any next to each other and used shrink tube. For whatever reason, I didn't stagger the MAF wires. Well the shrink tube shrank too far, and a few pointy soldered wires were sticking out and touching the other wire. I fixed those and now the IAT reads within 2 degrees of the coolant temp, or room temp... I'll know tomorrow how the 4 lo wire works out.

[tbshakie]

that has to be frustrating as hell. I am glad that you are making progress.

[93 Krawler]

that has to be frustrating as hell. I am glad that you are making progress.

Yes, very :at-wits'end: Hopefully it will run like it should now.

Anyone ever run Tom woods off set u-joints? Curious to see how they hold up.
My front t-case joint binds some at full droop, so I bought one hoping it won't bind anymore. I usually have to service that joint after every ride.

ATTACH]8381[/ATTACH]

[tbshakie]

I don't know anyone that runs them. Have read they vibrate like hell at anything over crawling speed, but I do NOT have any first hand experience.

[93 Krawler]

I don't know anyone that runs them. Have read they vibrate like hell at anything over crawling speed, but I do NOT have any first hand experience.





My front shaft is made with AG spline, so I'm sure I won't notice any extra vibrations.

[93 Krawler]

I took it for a spin today, and it runs great now. IAT temps are right where they should be. The speed is now correct in 4 lo too. Looks like I'm good to go. Windrock here I come. :thumbup:

[blazerbrad]

Out of curiosity, did you now have the VSS on the transfer case or transmission? Glad to hear it is running better now. Now it's time to tear it back out for a cam and a shift kit!

[93 Krawler]

Out of curiosity, did you now have the VSS on the transfer case or transmission? Glad to hear it is running better now. Now it's time to tear it back out for a cam and a shift kit!



It's on the tcase now. There may be a cam in the future, but I'm done for a while...

[93 Krawler]

Started having steering issues in Harlan last month. The power steering pump shaft broke. Had a spare, but it didn't work very long, so I figured it was a bad rebuild. Decided to do the west Texas mod to the flow control valve to increase bypass pressure. I also drilled out the pressure fitting from 5/32 to 11/64. 1/64 bigger... They say not to drill it bigger than 5/32, but did it anyway. Got it all back together, bled, and fired it up. Went lock to the driver side, smooth easy turn, went lock passenger and it made a noise and the steering got hard. I could rev it up and it would get easier, much like the spare pump I put on in Harlan. I figured that mod did it in, so I put another pump on it and removed the modded valve and tried it again. Lock driver was good, lock passenger made the pump die, bad, started pouring fluid out the can seal. It cracked the housing and blew out the cap on the back. I have a hard time believing that 1/64 bigger hole leaving the pump would do this. May be wrong, dunno. I'm leaning on the orbital being messed up. So I got another orbital, and new 5/32 pressure fitting, and I'm trying it again tonight. Anyone had this issue before? Anyone know of a place that would be able to check the orbital out?

8554

8555

[Drivermod]

I had lots of issues with pumps when I first built my buggy. I went through about 5 stock pumps and a KRC before I finally found the issue. I kept blowing out seals and even sheared off a pump shaft in one of the stock pumps. Ended up finding that the ram was eating itself up internally and sending small metal particulate through the system. I had a screen filter inline but the metal was small enough to pass through it. It appeared the metal was blocking the internal pressure release valve and causing the pumps to overpressurize and fail. Once I replaced the ram and thoroughly cleaned the system out I no longer had any issues.

[Ky Mudhunter]

The large hole in the output fitting should not cause any excessive pressure. If it is too big it will allow too much flow with not enough restriction (therefore no pressure) at low rpm. I know that one from personal experience :d'oh:.

I have blown the cap out of the back before also but never cracked the housing. How far did you go with the West Texas mod? I recommend only removing the factory shims and tightening the nut all of the way down. You can easily cause too much pressure if you start adding shims under the spring. That is how I blew the cap out on mine. If you want to mess around with the pressure I highly recommend putting a liquid filled gauge in the pressure line so you can see where you actually are at max pressure. I usually don't go over 2500 psi when you are at full lock.

[93 Krawler]

I had lots of issues with pumps when I first built my buggy. I went through about 5 stock pumps and a KRC before I finally found the issue. I kept blowing out seals and even sheared off a pump shaft in one of the stock pumps. Ended up finding that the ram was eating itself up internally and sending small metal particulate through the system. I had a screen filter inline but the metal was small enough to pass through it. It appeared the metal was blocking the internal pressure release valve and causing the pumps to overpressurize and fail. Once I replaced the ram and thoroughly cleaned the system out I no longer had any issues.



I have a good paper filter in my reservoir, will have to check it for metal. When you changed pumps, was there a lot of metal on the magnet? I haven't seen any major metal on mine.

[93 Krawler]

The large hole in the output fitting should not cause any excessive pressure. If it is too big it will allow too much flow with not enough restriction (therefore no pressure) at low rpm. I know that one from personal experience :d'oh:.





I have blown the cap out of the back before also but never cracked the housing. How far did you go with the West Texas mod? I recommend only removing the factory shims and tightening the nut all of the way down. You can easily cause too much pressure if you start adding shims under the spring. That is how I blew the cap out on mine. If you want to mess around with the pressure I highly recommend putting a liquid filled gauge in the pressure line so you can see where you actually are at max pressure. I usually don't go over 2500 psi when you are at full lock.



I stretched out the spring to 2". I removed all the shims. I did the 1/16 shim and ground down the pin. I thought the same thing with the pressure fitting being too big. The shim mod was removed before the last pump imploded. So, I dunno.

[Ky Mudhunter]

Have you pulled the cap off the back of the cracked pump to look inside? I am thinking one of the vanes may have broke and gotten wedged inbetween the cam and rotor maybe???

Was that a rebuilt pump? I have seen a lot of bad pumps coming from the rebuilders lately for some reason.

[Drivermod]

I have a good paper filter in my reservoir, will have to check it for metal. When you changed pumps, was there a lot of metal on the magnet? I haven't seen any major metal on mine.

Very little metal on the magnets but thats because the piston inside the ram was aluminum. The cylinder walls were scored which in turn started chewing up the piston sending small aluminum particles throughout the system. I ended up replacing the ram and all the lines along with putting a 5 micron filter in the return line. I probably didn't have to replace the lines but didn't want to chance ruining my new KRC pump and ram.

[93 Krawler]

Have you pulled the cap off the back of the cracked pump to look inside? I am thinking one of the vanes may have broke and gotten wedged in between the cam and rotor maybe???

Was that a rebuilt pump? I have seen a lot of bad pumps coming from the rebuilders lately for some reason.

I haven't pulled the cap off yet. I would imagine the internals are a mess. There is about 1/2" of play in the pump shaft now.

Yes, was rebuilt.

I ordered a new fitting from Jegs on Sunday to replace the one I drilled out an extra 1/64. They shipped it out USPS on Monday. Figured I'd get in Tuesday like I normally would, not... Only the USPS can take over 2 days to make a 4 hr drive. Then they're closed today, so I won't get it till Thursday. :at-wits'end: I'm about ready to put the drilled one back on so I can be ready to leave for Rush Friday.

[Ky Mudhunter]

As long as you still had pressure at idle, I wouldn't hesitate to put the oversize fitting in and run it.

[93 Krawler]

As long as you still had pressure at idle, I wouldn't hesitate to put the oversize fitting in and run it.



The pumps didn't last long enough to find out. Worse case steering is a little slow.

[93 Krawler]

Well, killed another pump. This time it died when I went driver lock. Is it bad to run the engine with the ram disconnected? I bled it with the engine off, then after no more air, I started it and slowly went back and forth not hitting lock. After all seemed OK, i went passenger lock and it bypassed, then driver to lock slowly and pop, pump was done. All was done with the ram disconnected. This is getting old...

[Ky Mudhunter]

I don't think you can hurt anything with the ram disconnected. When you hit full lock you are stopping all flow through the lines anyway and the extra fluid should going through the by-pass valve. I agree with Waffle, I think you need to install a pressure gauge so that you can find out what the pressure is doing when you hit full lock.

[93 Krawler]

If I install a gauge, won't i just kill another pump? This one has no pressure at all.

[blazerbrad]

Are you re-using the same output assembly (output fitting, spring, pin, etc...) when you switch the pumps? Just trying to figure out what is in common between all the failed pumps, and wondering if maybe the pressure bypass is sticking. I've had it stick open on mine, meaning it was just bypassing all of the pressure and felt like the pump died. I could also see it be stuck closed and not bypass which could also kill the pump.

[93 Krawler]

Are you re-using the same output assembly (output fitting, spring, pin, etc...) when you switch the pumps? Just trying to figure out what is in common between all the failed pumps, and wondering if maybe the pressure bypass is sticking. I've had it stick open on mine, meaning it was just bypassing all of the pressure and felt like the pump died. I could also see it be stuck closed and not bypass which could also kill the pump.

The only thing in common last time was the output fitting, the one I drilled out 1/64 bigger than recommended. I used the same spring and piston that came in the new pump. I did remove the shims under the nut.
I'm going to try it one more time and do no mods to the pump at all.

[93 Krawler]

Finally brought the rig back in the garage after evicting it last month for being a pain. Put on another pump, no mods at all, 100% factory, and it works killer. Better steering than I ever had before. It's about frigging time... :thumbup:

[Drivermod]

Finally brought the rig back in the garage after evicting it last month for being a pain. Put on another pump, no mods at all, 100% factory, and it works killer. Better steering than I ever had before. It's about frigging time... :thumbup:

Good to hear. I feel your pain.

[tbshakie]

so what did you do to fix it?

[93 Krawler]

so what did you do to fix it?



Removed all the mods and made it stock. I think the orbital I got from waffle made it steer easier, but it seems like it will take more turns to get lock to lock. I recall him saying that when it was on his. I do like the finger steer though.

[93 Krawler]

I think this is correct: If your at more turns lock to lock now but it turns with less effort, then that orbital you have now is requiring less gpm from your pump and puts you under the gpm max that the pump will supply. Changing to a faster lock to lock valve can be too much for the pump and you'll begin to feel resistance in the steering. This is what happened to me. My old orbital (on your rig) steered with one finger, but it was 4 turns lock to lock. My new orbital is under 3 turns LTL but it's no longer 1 finger friendly. This is why I plan on going to a higher gpm and pressure CBR pump.

My old orbital was 1.5 each way like yours. When you get yours right, I'll copy it. :thumbup:

[93 Krawler]

Whoa! 1.5? Each way? No wonder you had issues. My current setup is 2.5 one way and just under 3 the other. With my old valve is was closer to 3.5 left and just over 4 right.

Four full turns one way.... wow... Are you sure? That seems nuts. You must be thinking total turns. My van only turns 1 3/4 turns each way. I'll have to check the rig tonight to see.

I have the 125 (7.6) valve.
orbital Rating
in ml/rev
(c.i./rev.) 6-Inch Ram 8-Inch Ram 10-Inch Ram
100 (6.1) 2.7 3.6 4.5
125 (7.6) 2.2 2.9 3.6
160 (9.8) 1.7 2.3 2.8

https://www.trail-gear.com/TG/Orbitals_Steering_Control_Valve_-_100__6_1_/i_0_0_5031/_130043-1-KIT.aspx

[93 Krawler]

Turns lock to lock in an unbalanced system (SE cylinder) is measured from left steering stop over to right steering stop and then back again, right steering stop to left steering stop. You'll have two different numbers. Sounds like your measuring from the wheel being centered over to either stop.
.
That trail-gear info is regarding one particular diameter cylinder though. My 8" cylinder is small at 2-1/4". Yours is 8 x 2-1/2" and will have diff results just like a 8 x 3" will differ as well.

Pretty sure the term lock to lock is from one side to the other.

[WrenchMonkey]

Turns lock to lock in an unbalanced system (SE cylinder) is measured from left steering stop over to right steering stop and then back again, right steering stop to left steering stop. You'll have two different numbers...

That can't be right. I certainly know exactly squat about hydro steering, but you're saying LTL takes 3.5 turns left to right, and 4 turns right to left? So from straight ahead to left lock takes two turns (half of LTL), but getting back to straight ahead only takes 1.75?

That would put the steering wheel in a different position after every turn.

:thinking::shrug::thinking:

[93 Krawler]

Ok, I checked my rig and from left to right was 4 turns, and from right to left was 5 turns. My old one was way less than that. I have a feeling I will be changing this out for my old one real soon. That's a whole lot of steering...

Robert, my steering wheel is never in the same position.

[WrenchMonkey]

Robert, my steering wheel is never in the same position.

That would drive me NUTS.

I'll shut the hell up now and let the grownups talk. :whistle:

[underpowered]

That would drive me NUTS.

I'll shut the hell up now and let the grownups talk. :whistle:

big downside of a Single ended cylinder is the uneven steering.

mine should be about 3 LTL when done. My brothers truck is way to slow at like 4 one way and almost 5 and a half the other. scary at any sort of speed over a crawl when trying to make a quick turn.

[93 Krawler]

I have decided to lose some weight on my rig, like everything but my drive train. I just want something lighter and slimmer. So I'm going to start collecting parts for an S10 build. I plan on a 4 link front and rear, and a tube chassis. I want to do an extended cab, but not if my wheelbase will be more than 117". I need to get dog house measurements on standard and extended cabs. Anyone on here have one they can measure?

[WrenchMonkey]

I like this plan.

There's a guy on dayshift that dailys an extended cab. I could grab some quick numbers to get you started.

[93 Krawler]

I like this plan.





There's a guy on dayshift that dailys an extended cab. I could grab some quick numbers to get you started.



That would be great. Thx. The most important measurement is from the cab rear to the cab front. I can measure out the wheelbase from that.

[WrenchMonkey]

Cab front? The leading edge of the bottom of the door?

Like this?

[Ky Mudhunter]

I have both a regular cab and extended cab 1st gen trucks. I can get you measurements of them if you want. I would sell the extended cab if you are interested. It is just a body, no frame. The bed was shortened to fit the wheelbase on a k5 frame.
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/voet/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/thanksgiving05-10.jpg

[93 Krawler]

Cab front? The leading edge of the bottom of the door?

Like this?

Cab front or where ever the tire would rub minus the fender.

[93 Krawler]

I have both a regular cab and extended cab 1st gen trucks. I can get you measurements of them if you want. I would sell the extended cab if you are interested. It is just a body, no frame. The bed was shortened to fit the wheelbase on a k5 frame.
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/voet/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/thanksgiving05-10.jpg

I'm looking for a 2nd gen, but the measurements should be close. If you could get some measurements that would be great.

[Ky Mudhunter]

I figured you might be looking for 2nd gen. That's why I would sell the ext cab. I am putting a 2nd gen S10 blazer body on the K5 frame.

I'll try to get some measurement tonight if I don't forget.

[blazerbrad]

I have both a regular cab and extended cab 1st gen trucks. I can get you measurements of them if you want. I would sell the extended cab if you are interested. It is just a body, no frame. The bed was shortened to fit the wheelbase on a k5 frame.
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/voet/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/thanksgiving05-10.jpg

Just for reference purposes.

Stock wheelbase for extended cab S-10 (1st and 2nd gen) is 122.9".

The factory K5 wheelbase is 106.5" in regards to the picture above with an extended cab S-10 on a K5 frame, and assuming he kept the axles in the same location.

Assuming you want to keep it pretty low the front axle will need to be stretched forward quite a bit to clear the firewall with 39.5" tires, plus it will help with approach angles. I think you will be able to stay right around 117" but probably won't have a lot of play room without getting into the cab with either the front or rear tires.

[Ky Mudhunter]

Brad, yes the axles were kept in stock location. The cab was positioned so that front axle was moved forward about 6" from stock S10. The front of the bed was shortened and the cab corners were cut to clear the rear tires. FYI those are 38's on it in that pic.

[93 Krawler]

My cab is 57". I betting the extendo cab is going to be too big.
This is what i'm thinking minus the rockwells and the bars across the doors.
8707

[Ky Mudhunter]

Reg cab is 54" and the ext cab is 69" for the 1st gen trucks.

[WrenchMonkey]

His extended cab is 68.5" from the back of the cab to the lip of the front fender, measured along the rocker.

That's 20.5 for the extended cab, 44 for the door, and 4 for the fender.

There's probably a couple inches to be gained between that lip and the front corner of the actual cab, but I couldn't verify without pulling out the fender liner.

[93 Krawler]

Lets do some math. I currently have 21" between the rear of the cab and the rear tire. If I move the front forward 4.5", the rear goes the same to keep my 117". Now I have 16.5" between. subtract another 12" for the ext cab and now I have 4" between. I could probably cheat 1-2" from the front since the cab isn't as wide and the cab mounts should be different. It will clear, but won't it look weird with the cab that close in the rear. I know, I can cut the cab down so it's the same size as my cab. :laughing: I don't know if I'll like the cab being 3" smaller. There's barely enough leg room now. I'd have to sit at a 90 degree angle... I need to sit in a reg cab and see.

[WrenchMonkey]

Wait, why are you moving the front forward 4.5"? You don't hit now, do you?

If your cab is 57", and you've got 21" rear clearance, a 68" cab will leave 10". Probably more, since 68 was to the fender, and you'll certainly gain some there.

[WrenchMonkey]

Ah, gotcha.

But that wouldn't necessarily move the tires farther from the cab. Unless the 5.3 is right against the firewall, you could move the cab up too. Figure you're probably already looking at a custom trans tunnel.

[WrenchMonkey]

I guess I'm asking if the front of the S10 cab has to stay right where the front of the 1500 cab is.

Since the axle is moving forward, there will be room to move the cab forward without running into tire clearance issues.

The limit becomes the firewall hitting the engine. I don't know how much room there is to play with there.

[Ky Mudhunter]

He'll have to do tunnel work regardless to fit the trans

Why does he need to do tunnel work? The stock S10 tunnel will clear a turbo 350 or 700r4 with no mods. My truck clears an NV4500 with only a 1" body lift and that is mostly because of the way I did my twin stick shifters.

[93 Krawler]

Wait, why are you moving the front forward 4.5"? You don't hit now, do you?

My tires do rub the frame and body mount a little at full stuff while turning. If I never planned to go bigger than a 39.5, then I would only move the axle forward 1". But, if I do want to a 43, I want the clearance to do so. I guess I'd only have to move it forward 3" or so, it depends on how the frame is for the s10. I might only have to go 2". That will still make the rear around 7-8" between. Still doesn't sound like much...

[93 Krawler]

I've found a lot of ext cab s10 truggy's online that I like so that's the route I'm going. I really like this one except I would chop the front off and tube it, and lose the spare tire.

8717

[WrenchMonkey]

That's awesome.

You're keeping doors n windows right?

[93 Krawler]

You're keeping doors n windows right?

Oh yeah. Gotta have doors. :thumbup:

[monkeystrong]

I really like the direction you are going with this!

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[93 Krawler]

Going tomorrow to look at this one. http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/cto/5437108199.html
If the rust isn't too bad, I'll grab it. Looks like I'll be keeping that other 5.3 for mock up purposes. It already has a 4l60e, so all I need is a tcase from upull and I'll be set. I figure I can get some pipe to mock up the axles. I should be able to build most of it before I need the parts off the 93. Don't want to miss any wheelin trips...

[WrenchMonkey]

The silver and teal is a nice look...

[93 Krawler]

It's mine now... What a turd. Lol

[WrenchMonkey]

Ah, and so it begins!

Congrats!

[93 Krawler]

Ah, and so it begins!

Congrats!

Thanks. Got it for $400, and it looks like a $400 car. :laughing: It needs some love on the inside for sure... I think someone lived in it. A trip to you pull will fix that. Once I rip the seats and carpet out it will look a lot better. Frame is in good shape, body isn't bad. There is a little rust on the cab corner, but overall, in good shape for a off-road rig.

Regarding something I brought up to Kevin, I'm curious to know what the inside frame width is under the back of the cab compared to a Toyota. Can any Toyota guys measure theirs when ya get a chance? Thanks.

It will be a while before I do anything to it. It has 4" of snow on it now. I still have to get the big rig ready for wheelin season. That is priority.

[93 Krawler]

Ever since I put the 5.3 in the rig, there was always some throttle issues, as in, when I mash it, it wouldn't go. More like I'll go when I feel like it. I told the guy that removed all the extra bs in the PCM that something wasn't right. I referred him to a link that told exactly how to remove the torque management and dropped it off to him. That didn't help much, so I figured he didn't do it. That left me with a decision to either take the rig to a tuner or buy a tuner and do it myself. I opted to buy HT Tuner Pro. I know I am nowhere close to knowing what a tuner knows, but it will allow me to see if the TM is still in it. I will learn how to tune in time.

I checked the tune and he removed most of the engine TM, but left all the transmission TM in. I will remove it all and see how it does next month at Rush.

[93 Krawler]

In Harlan I killed a 60 u-joint and it took out my moly inner, so I'm in the market for some good joints and at least an inner to replace the one I broke.
I came across these, http://completeoffroad.com/i-133846-78-79-ford-snofighter-35-spline-chrome-moly-axle-kit-w-super-u-joints-w-26012.html
Seems like a good deal for a complete set. Has anyone ever dealt with complete off-road before? A warranty is only as good as the company issuing it.

[kyrel69]

In Harlan I killed a 60 u-joint and it took out my moly inner, so I'm in the market for some good joints and at least an inner to replace the one I broke.
I came across these, http://completeoffroad.com/i-133846-78-79-ford-snofighter-35-spline-chrome-moly-axle-kit-w-super-u-joints-w-26012.html
Seems like a good deal for a complete set. Has anyone ever dealt with complete off-road before? A warranty is only as good as the company issuing it.

did some fast searching and came up with this
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f27/complete-off-road-vendor-reputation-1044239/

that does seem like a good price,,, and the company has been around for a while now it seems

[Ky Mudhunter]

I bought my chromo shafts for my 44 from them. When I broke one and called them for warranty the company had changed owners. The previous owner sold multiple brand shafts and did not mark on the invoice which brand he sold you. The new ownership could not find a record of my invoice ( which they explained was common with the previous owner). They had me e-mail them pics of the shaft and my invoice. After seeing the pics, they got me setup to send the broken shaft in for warranty. Took some time and a couple phone calls but they took care of me. I would recommend them.

[gothodgie]

what about RCV's ?

[93 Krawler]

Yeah, no way I'm getting RCV's. These are the shaft's I have now. They came in a Yukon box. http://shop.broncograveyard.com/D60-4340-Chrome-Moly-Front-Axle-Package-4/productinfo/11796/

I was wondering about the "super joints" too. I'll have to check into that. Feel free to call them if your bored Mark. :thumbup:

[93 Krawler]

Ok, did some digging on USA standard products which is the brand I think those shafts are. They are Yukon products that are not met to quality specs, so a blem you might say. That's why they are so cheap. Wonder if the super joints are the same blem?

[tbshakie]

I have a set of dana 44 shafts from complete off road. They are Yukon axles shafts with super joints.

they have two different grades; one with American made metal and one with metal made in India. my money is that these are the ones with metal from India.

[93 Krawler]

I have a set of dana 44 shafts from complete off road. They are Yukon axles shafts with super joints.

they have two different grades; one with American made metal and one with metal made in India. my money is that these are the ones with metal from India.

I'm running the cheapo Yukons now I'd say. If I would've had this set I could've sent them in for warranty. Pretty sure the stock spicer joint is why it took out the shaft.

Same PN from USA standard.
http://www.usastandardgear.com/productdetails.aspx?ProdID=11657
http://completeoffroad.com/i-133846-78-79-ford-snofighter-35-spline-chrome-moly-axle-kit-w-super-u-joints-w-26012.html

[bbtank45]

Havent run any of them yet, so i can only comment on what i have read and researched. My understanding has been...

Yukon Superjoints are not offered (that im aware of) in 300M, and the CTM's can be 4340 or 300m. CTM makes everything in house and will make the joint out of whatever....but will only warranty the 300m's. Longfields, Nitro Excalibur's and the Ouverson Violators are only offered in 300m.


Best value - Yukon Superjoints or Longfields.
Best quality - CTM ("Drive home" joints)
Worst quality - Nitro Excaliburs. Cheap price, but this was bobby longs old patent that he sold to nitro when he redesigned the current Longfield. Chase @ ECGS wont even sell them to you (willingly), because they've had an abundance of warrantied joints. The design prevents/starves the caps from getting the necessary grease.


I was leaning heavily towards the Ouverson Violators, but after some lengthy discussion with Randy @ Ouverson and Scott Morris about availability (extremely slow production out of Ouverson) concerns....i steered away.

I think the perception about the Longfields is incorrect because theyre sold by Trail Gear. I wouldn't hesitate at all to run the Longfields; tons of guys running their D60 joints with great success and next to zero failures.

I would recommend a call to Chase @ ECGS. He hooked up me up really well on my 35 spline 4340 shaft setup with Yukon Superjoints.

[93 Krawler]

Took the heavy Chevy to get it weighed before it gets disassembled. This is with the stuff i carry in the big box, no tool box, but parts, fluids etc, full doors, half tank of gas, and me in it. Definitely shootin for way less on the s10. 9653

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[93 Krawler]

Was looking through some pics and found this one. Tim, Mark, and I at the Harlan fall crawl in 2008 by Mason Jar. My first time at Harlan. Good times...

9654


Nine years later, the last trip in the ole rig, lettin er rip up Mason Jar. jammin

9655

[94Dodge Truggy]

Pics of new build? :thumbup:

[93 Krawler]

Pics of new build? :thumbup:

http://www.cincyoffroad.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11682

[93 Krawler]

The heavy Chevy is no more. Took what was left to the scrap yard today. It weighed 1760 lbs. Hardly anything left and still weighed almost a ton...

10272

Sent from my S7 using Tapatalk

[WrenchMonkey]

Took what was left to the scrap yard today.

Ha, took the last of my 89 in yesterday, but they wouldn't take it without the title...

[93 Krawler]

Ha, took the last of my 89 in yesterday, but they wouldn't take it without the title...They did the same thing when I took the S10 frame down. They wanted the title but I told them that I need the title for the body. Luckily I knew one of the guys down there and they went ahead and did it.

Sent from my S7 using Tapatalk

[jeepmanjeff]

cut it up with a Saw and take it in that way. Tell them it is multiple parts of different vehicles. Little bit of work but you can get rid of it.