ford 44s

[tjrider]

I have the chance to buy a front Ford d44 for cheap. Its from a 79ish f150, and I believe its the radius arm setup. Will this work for a tj? I've read somewhere that certain models wont fit. I think they had cast knuckles....? Need some input before I lose the deal

[frankensteinxj]

The cast knuckles limit you to using only ford radius arms unless you completely retube the axle.
I learned the hard way when I bought one for my xj. Ended up at the scrap yard.

If I were you I'd wait for a different deal.
Ford 44s arent to hard to find.

[tjrider]

Would it be stupid to run Ford arms? I saw it in a mj once

[frankensteinxj]

Would it be stupid to run Ford arms? I saw it in a mj once

Ive seen people run them and have no problems with it.
It just limits it to only being able to use the radius arms.

Here is a good thread about with a guy using them in tj.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=791009

[tjrider]

What does it mean to "wrist" one of the arms? Heims? That setup doesn't look too shabby

[kentuckytwostep]

I ran a setup pretty much like his in my XJ... flexed like a pro without wristing either arm. My only advice is if you are going to run a 44 with 35's or larger tires, splurge for GOOD axle joints.

[tjrider]

I ran a setup pretty much like his in my XJ... flexed like a pro without wristing either arm. My only advice is if you are going to run a 44 with 35's or larger tires, splurge for GOOD axle joints.

So you ran the OEM arms as is? Just a straight swap .. . I'm looking to do this and push the axle forward about 2 inches

[tjrider]

Does anyone know how much wider a 44 is over the d30?

[KennyTJ]

The '79 F250 High Pionion D44 8-lug axle is 67.5" wide after rebuild with all new bearings. I am building this axle right now along with a rear D60 for my '06 DAILY DRIVER TJ.

This axle has plenty of room for the TJ spring perches and is a good upgrade to the High Pionion 30 I ran in my TJ. This was originally a leaf spring axle so no radious arm wedges to deal with. You can change the hubs to 6 or 5 lug also, pleanty of aftermarket support. I would do the 8 lug just for the MASSIVE dual piston disc brake calipers (same as on the D60 BTW). With bigger, heavier tires and steel wheels with beadlocks, TJ rotors and calipers just won't cut it anymore, even with expensive EBC pads they wear out pretty quick, like every year.

FYI, on the TJ the radious arm setup will unload bigtime on steep hill climbs. Rubicon Express, Rusty's Offroad, and other manufactured kits have this issue as well with thier radious arm setups... again just FYI

:beers:

[tjrider]

I know tons of guys running radius arms in their rigs and love them. Just trying to do the quickest swap I can

[T-bird]

I know tons of guys running radius arms in their rigs and love them. Just trying to do the quickest swap I can

This will by no means be a "quick swap". You are going to have to make your own steering, maybe move spring sperches, maybe move steering box, redo axle mounts or frame mounts and figure out your brakes.

If you are chosing this axle because its quick and easy you should just look into building a HP 30. They can run 35's reliable as long as you don't pound the gas.

[tjrider]

This will by no means be a "quick swap". You are going to have to make your own steering, maybe move spring sperches, maybe move steering box, redo axle mounts or frame mounts and figure out your brakes.

If you are chosing this axle because its quick and easy you should just look into building a HP 30. They can run 35's reliable as long as you don't pound the gas.

That was my first choice.....

[tjrider]

Maybe I'll just try to find one of those elusive rubi 44s

[tjrider]

After reading thread after thread..... it seems a d44 is just a d30 with a bigger R&P. Same tubes, knuckles, hubs, and bearings. I might as well build a HP 30 and save some coin. I read the ring gear is only @ 3/4" bigger on a 44.

[T-bird]

There are even people that swap out a rubi 44 for a hp 30. If you are going to run 35" MUDs and not some 14.5" wide bias pit bulls, it will work well. The best part is that everything will bolt right up.

[kentuckytwostep]

If you aren't looking for the extra width... I wouldn't blame you. I had nothing but broken parts with mine. I did cut the ford arms and slip a piece of 1/4" DOM over them (like the pirate link). I always wanted to fab up a 609 for the front to match the 9" rear.

[kentuckytwostep]

Just trying to do the quickest swap I can

I put mine in an XJ and it was amazing how easy it was... Almost like the cherokee designers aimed for people to swap in late 70's ford stuff. The rear axle bolted right up. rear leaf spring perches were 1/2" off and I welded on some new axle side shock mounts flush with the bottom of the axle. Had to offset the front coils inward by maybe and inch on each side. Front shocks bolted up. I mated the ford trac with the XJ trac and they lined up perfect... For the steering I kept the ford tierod but moved it to OTK and made a drag link (using 1 ton cheby TRE's) to run up to the steering arm. I made my own frame end mounts for the radius arms but they could be purchased from one of the many parts suppliers out there.

for a TJ... the rear is what would take you so long. You'd have to get link brackets to weld to the 9" housing.

[tjrider]

I put mine in an XJ and it was amazing how easy it was... Almost like the cherokee designers aimed for people to swap in late 70's ford stuff. The rear axle bolted right up. rear leaf spring perches were 1/2" off and I welded on some new axle side shock mounts flush with the bottom of the axle. Had to offset the front coils inward by maybe and inch on each side. Front shocks bolted up. I mated the ford trac with the XJ trac and they lined up perfect... For the steering I kept the ford tierod but moved it to OTK and made a drag link (using 1 ton cheby TRE's) to run up to the steering arm. I made my own frame end mounts for the radius arms but they could be purchased from one of the many parts suppliers out there.

for a TJ... the rear is what would take you so long. You'd have to get link brackets to weld to the 9" housing.

The rear has a 8.8 Ford already. I'm just trying to find something for the front.so you used all the factory axle mounts on the 44 and just slid DOM over the arms? How reliable was it?

[kentuckytwostep]

The suspension was very reliable. I loved the setup except for the fact that I couldn't keep axle joints in it... and when they went they took the shafts with them. I figured that if I was going to spend a grand (or two) on high grade joints and shafts I would rather just put that money toward a d60 and run stock parts until I outgrow them. So far in 6 months I've put more trail miles (and harder ones) on my 60 (with zero joint failures) than I did in a year on the 44 (with about 10 joint failures). There are some that think I may have not had my steering stops set in far enough and was over steering/binding the axle joints... :o that might be so. either way, I had a lot of these

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq206/bobkmac/Jeep%20Pics/IMG_2069.jpg


Shoot me a PM with your email and I'll send you some pictures. Yeah, I used the ford radius arm brackets with some james duff poly bushings to correct the pinion angle.

Here is was it looked like when I was modifying the arms:

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq206/bobkmac/Jeep%20Pics/Dana%2044%20Ford%209%20inch%20Build%20up/IMG_1090.jpg

And even without a "wristed" arm flex was not an issue.

[tjrider]

There are even people that swap out a rubi 44 for a hp 30. If you are going to run 35" MUDs and not some 14.5" wide bias pit bulls, it will work well. The best part is that everything will bolt right up.

after talking with you and two step. i think the HP 30 is my best choice right now.... I'm only looking to run 35's anyways. i don't want huge tires, it takes the challenge out of wheeling. Maybe sleeve it and some good shafts, I should be good

[frankensteinxj]

after talking with you and two step. i think the HP 30 is my best choice right now.... I'm only looking to run 35's anyways. i don't want huge tires, it takes the challenge out of wheeling. Maybe sleeve it and some good shafts, I should be good

If you swap in the 30 you will always be worrying about breaking shafts or worse breaking the ring and pinion.
I wouldnt waste my time swapping one in personally, that is why I took mine out. once you lock it and put 35s on it those shafts are gonna hate life and you can expect to change at least one a trip.
Just a word from experience.
:beers:

[coachholland]

I ran a locked HP D30 for two years with chromoly shafts initially with heavy 33 bias swampers and later 35" **** Cepek crushers. I geared to 4.10's because I didn't want R&P issues. I didn't run mild trails for what it was capable of. Widowmaker, Carb, Devil's Brew, Lower Staircase, etc at Slade. Lower, Middle, Killing Time, Pinball, Fish Fossil, Grapevine, Railbed, etc at Harlan. Plenty at Windrock. The setup worked quite well, didn't throw u-joints and not one breakage until for whatever reason I ended up with some play in my pinion which led to a chipped tooth on my ring gear. Granted I didn't run something like Lion's Den with a HP D30 on 35's, but that is not a 35" tire place to go anyway. Plus, I'm the type that will never see anything close to the rev limiter.

That said, I outgrew the D30...

[tjrider]

Is there an axle I can mate with the 8.8 @ the same width?

[frankensteinxj]

Is there an axle I can mate with the 8.8 @ the same width?

I would say that a hp44 is your best bet just not the one with cast wedges.
I know you have a tj but read around on naxja.org a little. search and read and search and read.
Pirate4x4 is also full of helpful info for what you are looking to do just lurk and search search search.
If you end up having to run something wider in the front you may just need to throw some wheel spacers on the 8.8.

Or you could swap im some tons :eek:

[WrenchMonkey]

once you lock (a 30) and put 35s on it those shafts are gonna hate life and you can expect to change at least one a trip.
Just a word from experience.
:beers:

Some guys do. I know Nick was killing one every time he turned around...

I've busted one in eight years, and that was a bit of mud-pit, rev-limiter foolishness...

Can't explain the difference, certainly ain't a matter of skill!

Robert

[tjrider]

I would say that a hp44 is your best bet just not the one with cast wedges.
I know you have a tj but read around on naxja.org a little. search and read and search and read.
Pirate4x4 is also full of helpful info for what you are looking to do just lurk and search search search.
If you end up having to run something wider in the front you may just need to throw some wheel spacers on the 8.8.

Or you could swap im some tons :eek:

If I has the money I would put tons and 38s on it

[kentuckytwostep]

once you lock it and put 35s on it those shafts are gonna hate life and you can expect to change at least one a trip.

it all depends on the wheeling... I was changing axle joints (and sometimes factory shafts) on my 44 everytime I wheeled... which is why I'm running a 60 now :D

Is there an axle I can mate with the 8.8 @ the same width?

not domestic (not sure about yota stuff)... and that includes a ford 44... they are WIDE compared to that 8.8.

Or you could swap im some tons :eek:
:beers:

[tjrider]

That's why I'm thinking just go with a HP 30 for now. Its a little stronger than my LP 30. At least till I get the money for tons front and rear

[Incommando]

An often overlooked D60 front that can usually be bought cheaper is the kingpin Dodge from the mid 70's to the early 90's. Got mine from an '87 W250 for $300. Added a $125 FF C&C 14b. Swapping to a stronger pass drop t-case makes the axle work and also strenghtens the aluminum case/chain drive weakness of a 231. I don't blame sellers for getting say $2K for a CUCV axle set because people will pay it. But why are they paying that for a used axle set? Even adding Grizzly lockers I have $1300 in my 1tons with new lockers front and rear. Running the factory LSD'S or welding one or both diffes would have made this axle set down right cheap.

If you are going to have that HP D30 apart these inner axle tube sleeves are supposed to really be a great upgrade especially if you weld on some C-gussets: http://www.ironrockoffroad.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=IROR&Product_Code=IR-SD30IASK&Category_Code=UP

[frankensteinxj]

If you go with the dana 30 I have one that has chromoly shafts and superjoints with a spartan locker I will sell for 600$
3:55 gears though, your 8.8 prolly has 4:11.

The shafts and joints alone are over 1000 new. :eek:

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

[kentuckytwostep]

...the kingpin Dodge from the mid 70's to the early 90's. Got mine from an '87 W250 for $300...

I'll buy a truck load of them for that price... no kingpin 60's go for less than twice that around these parts.

[KennyTJ]

after talking with you and two step. i think the HP 30 is my best choice right now.... I'm only looking to run 35's anyways. i don't want huge tires, it takes the challenge out of wheeling. Maybe sleeve it and some good shafts, I should be good

I run the HP30 and 8.8 combo on the '06 TJ with 4.10s, LS rear and "NO" front locker. I run 35" BFG AT on the raod and 36" Super Swamper SX on steal beadlocks offroad.

I will never, rear carful "NEVER" put a front locker in with this setup cause shafts will pop like toothpicks. Here are the issues you'll have (even with the 35's)

1) 4.10 gears keep you in 4LO 1st gear all the time AND it still needs to be lower geared in some cases (I have the 6spd with a lower 1st gear also!) really needs 4.88 gearing.
2) brakes are woefully too small for the beadlocked offroad tires!
3) unit bearings and ujoint-s will need replaced every year, they will wear out and be sloppy!
4) not happy with the angle on the inverted Y steering, even with heavy duty drag link and tie rod, it always is in need of alighnment, every couple of trips it gets whacked.

here's the good.

1) the driveshat is 4" higher than with the stock D30!!!! I trashed a driveshaft on the stock D30, have never had it hit now, it's up higher than my tranny skid.
2) I like that the reverse cut gears are 30% stronger by running on the "correct" side of the ring gear.
3) swap is a bolt on affair.

I did weld a full length truss on the HP30 as well as full skid plates for the lower control arm mounts. I also replaced the upper CA bushings and installed Moog Ball Joints, have had no isuues so far, so seems they are worth the $,
overall it was good for a while, just DO NOT LOCK this axle with 35's it won't last.

I am currently building the F250 HP44 and D60 to replace the HP30 / 8.8 combo i've run the last 3 years. I am going 3/4 ton because I'll never go bigger than 37's on this TJ, will still drive on the street, and am not willing to cut up the fenders.... However I am building a 1ton 14b front and rear CJ5 as a trailer queen for Haqrdcore use!!! :D

8.8 build...
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb175/kcflannery/100_9129.jpg

HP30 build... (sorry no pretty finished pics)
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb175/kcflannery/100_8138.jpg
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb175/kcflannery/100_8143.jpg

:beers:

[tjrider]

I'm with kennytj and trigger on this. I don't know if ill ever go bigger than 33s. I don't want to drive forever for hardcore trails. I think a HP 30 would do great with those tires. Plus I can beat it a little harder

[frankensteinxj]

I'm with kennytj and trigger on this. I don't know if ill ever go bigger than 33s. I don't want to drive forever for hardcore trails. I think a HP 30 would do great with those tires. Plus I can beat it a little harder

I have one for sale .... built :D

[tjrider]

I have one for sale .... built :D

Man I would love to have yours, but I don't have $600 right now. Wish I did

[KennyTJ]

I'm with kennytj and trigger on this. I don't know if ill ever go bigger than 33s. I don't want to drive forever for hardcore trails. I think a HP 30 would do great with those tires. Plus I can beat it a little harder

The 4.10s were great with 33" radial mud tires, I loved the gearing with them, just not tall enough for 35s.

With 33s the HP30 / 8.8 is a great combo and proven time and again in TJs. Just beef 'em up, replace everything, bearings, ball joints and u-joints, and you will be glad you did. With 33s Spicer parts should be fine.

Just hold off on that lunchbox locker till you can afford some alloy shafts!

Sounds like a solid plan, can wait to see the build thread!

:beers:

[T-bird]

I don't like how low the ford 8.8 hangs down on 35's I could not imagine how bad it would be on 33's.

[KennyTJ]

I don't like how low the ford 8.8 hangs down on 35's I could not imagine how bad it would be on 33's.

It's no bigger than a D44, and you can trim a good 1/2 off the lip if you like. Never had an issue. The shock tabs hanging below the axle are the biggest issue with any stock TJ configuration, D35, D44, or 8.8.

just FYI

[tjrider]

I don't like how low the ford 8.8 hangs down on 35's I could not imagine how bad it would be on 33's.

I love my 8.8. I never have any issues dragging on stuff. I think a d60 hangs lower. I have tons of clearance

[itbrokeagain]

I had a 44 in my yj. 302 and 37 boggers and I was far from easy on it. Never a breakage. I put alloy shafts in just because I was worried about it but never had a problem. It is for sale with the matching 60 rear........

[frankensteinxj]

I had a 44 in my yj. 302 and 37 boggers and I was far from easy on it. Never a breakage. I put alloy shafts in just because I was worried about it but never had a problem. It is for sale with the matching 60 rear........

Here is your answer.

Good price on that set of axles.