tj rear leaf conversion

[tjrider]

So I've been kicking this idea around for a while, and been searching all kinds of forums. Does anyone here have any experience using leafs on their tj? I don't run a front sway bar so she leans pretty good off camber, and the rear leafs are supposed to help that. Just trying to get all the facts. A small rear stretch wouldn't be horrible either:beers:

[biggin69]

Leafs will still unload, just not as much as coils. Have you thought about slapping a Currie Antirock on the front?

[tjrider]

I don't really mind no front sway bar. I just don't like how far it leans over. Those swaybars are so expensive. I've read a lot of guys like how stable it makes them.....?

[yellowjacket]

antirock bar be only a fraction of the $ of a rear leaf conversion...just sayin..

but a couple years ago I read some reviews of a tj rear leaf kit and it was very positive iirc

[twiztedzuki]

id go antirock b4 i ever even considerd leaf springs!

[tjrider]

Well my thought was..... long arm the front and leaf the rear to eliminate the 4" short arm I have now. I just need it to behave better off-road. I got a HP30 for the front, so I was planning to just get a front radius arm kit and do something different in the back

[tjrider]

Question; can you run just a front antirock and take the rear sway bar off?

[twiztedzuki]

i alway ran just antirock on rear and non in front, so i would think it help out greatly no matter the placement. to me leaf springs are moving backwards performance wise

[biggin69]

antirock bar be only a fraction of the $ of a rear leaf conversion...just sayin..

but a couple years ago I read some reviews of a tj rear leaf kit and it was very positive iirc

Ed Zackery my point.:thumbup:

Well my thought was..... long arm the front and leaf the rear to eliminate the 4" short arm I have now. I just need it to behave better off-road. I got a HP30 for the front, so I was planning to just get a front radius arm kit and do something different in the back
You could probably 4 link the rear for around the same as doing a leaf conversion.
Question; can you run just a front antirock and take the rear sway bar off?

Absolutly!:thumbup: I am pretty sure the make a tj specific kit.

[tjrider]

The 8.8 is 4 linked already. Just wasn't sure what I wanted to do with the rear short arms. I'd rather build a kit than buy one. I was planning on using used DJ springs then just buy brackets

[biggin69]

The 8.8 is 4 linked already. Just wasn't sure what I wanted to do with the rear short arms. I'd rather build a kit than buy one. I was planning on using used DJ springs then just buy brackets

Sounds like you have it all figured out. You will save some $$$ doing it yourself. Plenty of places offer coil brackets. Hell you could even stretch the rear if you wanted.

[underpowered]

guy on here, i thin he is Flatlander757 or something like that, has a TJ with 3 link front and uses rear XJ leaves on his TJ. i'd PM him and see what he has to say.

[twiztedzuki]

yeah instead of link suspension , id go leaves and revolver shackles, that b badass getup!

[flatlander757]

I did it with Old Man Emu XJ leaves.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=768019

If you decide to do it, but good leaves from the start. It rides so much better with these leaves it's silly. Flexes plenty well too.

That said, if you can swing it then go 4-link with coils and shocks w/ an anti-roll bar.

My Jeep will be getting torn down some time in the near future to cut the tub in half and redo everything basically. Downsizing to 37s or 38s, Toyota Landcruiser axles, trying to drop it down to around 3000lbs, etc etc. I'm going to be 4 linking the rear, probably another 3-link up front this time too though but with coilovers hopefully at all 4 corners but we'll see....

Point being if you plan on doing this, I may have my entire setup for you to buy off of me, bumper, leaves and all. :beers:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/flatlander757/Jeep%20stuff/Bills%20491%20Offroad%201-15-11/tjflexatbills2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/flatlander757/Jeep%20stuff/Bills%20491%20Offroad%201-15-11/IMG_20110115_112039.jpg

This is the closest to a sidehill pic I've got:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/flatlander757/Jeep%20stuff/CORE%20Hangover%20Run%201-1-11%20Big%20Rock/COREHangover2011054.jpg

Roughly 12" of stretch, here's a pic to get an idea of the overhang in the rear. With the new leaves it's a bit of a better angle though(replaced because my bastards packs blew ass).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/flatlander757/Jeep%20stuff/CORE%20Hangover%20Run%201-1-11%20Big%20Rock/DSCF2309.jpg

[yellowjacket]

jeep made the stretched military tjs for the egyption army with leaves in the rear..so there is a profesional engineer that sees the benifit as well

[twiztedzuki]

yeah cheap and simple to build. upgrade 4 link instead of taking two steps back

[flatlander757]

I will say that aside from having crappy leaf packs to start with, I've had no issues from the rear(I do run a traction bar though)... whereas up front I've had to do the following:

-Replace every single one of my joints at least once(I went with Ballistic joints first time around. Never again, they build bull**** and they have poor company ethics and you'll be lucky to ever get your stuff)... now running Ruffstuff 1.25" heims without issue.
-My bumpstops that I used actually had one stretch over the factory bump mount which kinda sucks. Not a big deal though, $60 IIRC at Jegs.
-I have LH/RH threads on my lower links and upper link... I've caught them trying to come loose a couple times. Check things regularly... if not then drive in the snow and make sure they get rusted in place... not coming loose now:rolleyes:


The primary reason I did leafs the first time is that they're simple(backed up by the fact that I had the rear mocked up and done within a week or so... vs several weeks for the linked front), I didn't have to cut the frame at the hump(I was pretty nervous about doing this with a 110v welder), and frankly I really like the look of the shackles out back.


FWIW Brad Kilby has a leaf sprung rear TJ and it evidently works pretty well.

http://www.jeepaholics.com/feature/0009/0009.htm

If you want some inspiration, look up on Pirate for stuff involving "Covered Wagon 4x4" or something to that effect... it's nothing but a group of badass leaf sprung vehicles.

Well set up leaves will work way better than poorly set up links. That said you'll probably spend close to as much $$ finding out what makes your leaves work well as you would in up front costs for all the joints/tubing/threaded inserts/coil springs and in the end you need to buy good shocks no matter which setup you go with.

One thing that bugs me about my leaves is that one of the front spring hangers is about 1/4" further forward than the other, so sitting on flat ground the right side is lower than the left. It also affects spring rate because of the (very) slight difference in shackle angle. It's a relatively easy fix, but I'm going to fix it by just cutting the whole Jeep up again... this time new motor and everything:evilgrin:

edit: If you want to come check out my Jeep in person/go for a ride just send me a PM.

[tjrider]

So it seems like the consensus is to just stay with the 4 link I already have and just make them longer. Better start gathering a parts list then.

[gothodgie]

I did it with Old Man Emu XJ leaves.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=768019

If you decide to do it, but good leaves from the start. It rides so much better with these leaves it's silly. Flexes plenty well too.

That said, if you can swing it then go 4-link with coils and shocks w/ an anti-roll bar.

My Jeep will be getting torn down some time in the near future to cut the tub in half and redo everything basically. Downsizing to 37s or 38s, Toyota Landcruiser axles, trying to drop it down to around 3000lbs, etc etc. I'm going to be 4 linking the rear, probably another 3-link up front this time too though but with coilovers hopefully at all 4 corners but we'll see....

Point being if you plan on doing this, I may have my entire setup for you to buy off of me, bumper, leaves and all. :beers:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/flatlander757/Jeep%20stuff/Bills%20491%20Offroad%201-15-11/tjflexatbills2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/flatlander757/Jeep%20stuff/Bills%20491%20Offroad%201-15-11/IMG_20110115_112039.jpg

This is the closest to a sidehill pic I've got:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/flatlander757/Jeep%20stuff/CORE%20Hangover%20Run%201-1-11%20Big%20Rock/COREHangover2011054.jpg

Roughly 12" of stretch, here's a pic to get an idea of the overhang in the rear. With the new leaves it's a bit of a better angle though(replaced because my bastards packs blew ass).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/flatlander757/Jeep%20stuff/CORE%20Hangover%20Run%201-1-11%20Big%20Rock/DSCF2309.jpg

fj60 in the front and fj80 FF in the rear ? :thumbup:
:beers:

[biggin69]

fj60 in the front and fj80 FF in the rear ? :thumbup:
:beers:

Why are you always thinking about things "in the rear"?:eek:

[tjrider]

I will say that aside from having crappy leaf packs to start with, I've had no issues from the rear(I do run a traction bar though)... whereas up front I've had to do the following:

-Replace every single one of my joints at least once(I went with Ballistic joints first time around. Never again, they build bull**** and they have poor company ethics and you'll be lucky to ever get your stuff)... now running Ruffstuff 1.25" heims without issue.
-My bumpstops that I used actually had one stretch over the factory bump mount which kinda sucks. Not a big deal though, $60 IIRC at Jegs.
-I have LH/RH threads on my lower links and upper link... I've caught them trying to come loose a couple times. Check things regularly... if not then drive in the snow and make sure they get rusted in place... not coming loose now:rolleyes:


The primary reason I did leafs the first time is that they're simple(backed up by the fact that I had the rear mocked up and done within a week or so... vs several weeks for the linked front), I didn't have to cut the frame at the hump(I was pretty nervous about doing this with a 110v welder), and frankly I really like the look of the shackles out back.


FWIW Brad Kilby has a leaf sprung rear TJ and it evidently works pretty well.

http://www.jeepaholics.com/feature/0009/0009.htm

If you want some inspiration, look up on Pirate for stuff involving "Covered Wagon 4x4" or something to that effect... it's nothing but a group of badass leaf sprung vehicles.

Well set up leaves will work way better than poorly set up links. That said you'll probably spend close to as much $$ finding out what makes your leaves work well as you would in up front costs for all the joints/tubing/threaded inserts/coil springs and in the end you need to buy good shocks no matter which setup you go with.

One thing that bugs me about my leaves is that one of the front spring hangers is about 1/4" further forward than the other, so sitting on flat ground the right side is lower than the left. It also affects spring rate because of the (very) slight difference in shackle angle. It's a relatively easy fix, but I'm going to fix it by just cutting the whole Jeep up again... this time new motor and everything:evilgrin:

edit: If you want to come check out my Jeep in person/go for a ride just send me a PM.
If the leafs work so well, why are you switching it back to 4 link? The whole thing just seems simple and easy to me with the results I'm after. The rear doesn't flex much now with the sway bar on it. It looked cheaper to leaf it than buy all the rod ends and brackets and such..... but I've never designed anything before either

[tjrider]

yeah instead of link suspension , id go leaves and revolver shackles, that b badass getup!

So are you for or against? You've said both s:confused:ides.....

[flatlander757]

fj60 in the front and fj80 FF in the rear ? :thumbup:
:beers:

Sort of... I'm up in the air about a HP8" vs LP 9.5" front center section... but planning on the LP 9.5" center in the rear. I'm planning on running ARBs broached out to 35 spline in the rear(maybe up front, unsure as of now)... but wanting to build my own home-made knuckles kind of like Spidertrax, but I'm going to use the lower kingpin bearing from D60s top and bottom(so the bearings will need shimmed, but no spring and bushing to wear out up top) and build it to accept a Chevy 6 lug 33 spline IFS unit bearing up front. In the back since I want 35 spline, factory Toyota FF housing will not work. So it will either be semi float or I'll build it to accept redrilled F350 unit bearings(damn $$) or some 6 lug D60 hubs. Semi float is tempting since it's the lightest which is a major goal of mine. Ruff Stuff housings front and rear too.

If the leafs work so well, why are you switching it back to 4 link? The whole thing just seems simple and easy to me with the results I'm after. The rear doesn't flex much now with the sway bar on it. It looked cheaper to leaf it than buy all the rod ends and brackets and such..... but I've never designed anything before either

Lighter, better departure angle, better for driving at high speeds. While I know it's a pipe dream of mine, if I can build it to where I'm happy with it, it's on my bucket list to at least run the LCQ at King of the Hammers... or pre-qualify in a race around here. Running an ECORS event would be neat too. Also I have found I had a LOT more fun just building my Jeep vs wheeling it... which sucks because that's the expensive part:( So it's really just a new challenge for me. I still have a soft spot for leaves.

FWIW I have zero axle wrap which can be attributed to the traction bar.

[yellowjacket]

the ninja was being sarcastic.... google "revolver shackles" from the mid 90's.

x2 on flatlanders comment on good leaf setup bein better than incorrectly set up links

[flatlander757]

So are you for or against? You've said both s:confused:ides.....

I think that was sarcasm(I hope it was?). Revolver shackles and 3/4 ellipticals are great for flexing out on an RTI ramp, but will unload and flop around like a fish in most cases.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1005604

Unlike regular leaves, if the body goes past the tipping point, revolver shackles will just let go and the body gains momentum and flops over sideways... normal leaves will gradually go from "compression" to "stretch" which helps with stability.

edit: yellowjacket beat me to it.

[tjrider]

So I found out that RC offers a long arm upgrade with arms only for $900. Not a bad price to me, and it will remain a four link. Thoughts?........

[T-bird]

So I found out that RC offers a long arm upgrade with arms only for $900. Not a bad price to me, and it will remain a four link. Thoughts?........

It will be a 4 link with a pan hard bar, which is far from a triangulated 4 link that everyone talks about.

[tjrider]

I know, but I don't want to cut the brackets off for a triangulated 4 link. Its standard 4 link. Has to be better than a SA kit.......

[T-bird]

I know, but I don't want to cut the brackets off for a triangulated 4 link. Its standard 4 link. Has to be better than a SA kit.......

Does it have to be better? The kit is the cheapest bolt on long arm kit on the market, does that mean its good?

The joints on the RC stuff is known to wear out fast and you are going to put it on a daily driver. The kit is bolt on and uses bad geometry on the rear links to make it easy to install. Lots of people have troubles with suspension unloading and bad handling characteristics.

Why do you want a long arm? better flex? Cause you can get more than usable flex out of the factory short arm set up on a TJ. Here is mine with Currie arms and 12" travel shocks. If I went to long arms, I would just get hung up more on rocks and hate it.

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/294982_10100859829277125_571417117_a.jpg

I am not sure if this is fully flexed out but its the only picture I have right now.

[tjrider]

How much lift do you have? Is that SA front and rear? I know my factory arms don't flex that much.... mainly I want to get my wheel base back. My back tires aren't even centered in the wheel wells

[T-bird]

2.5" lift with flat fenders and currie arms. Using all 12" of the shocks. Front is all stock mounts except for shocks. Rear is factory lowers and triangulated uppers.

[tjrider]

So could I lower a 4 inch lift to a 2 inch with the same arms? Until I can get adjustable arms ......

[flatlander757]

So could I lower a 4 inch lift to a 2 inch with the same arms? Until I can get adjustable arms ......

Yeah, just get shorter springs and reset your toe.

[tjrider]

I see a lot of guys go low and lean with there Jeeps. Like 2" lifts and 37s. If they don't get hung up, maybe that's the way to go. Super low COG. Still flexy.

[flatlander757]

I see a lot of guys go low and lean with there Jeeps. Like 2" lifts and 37s. If they don't get hung up, maybe that's the way to go. Super low COG. Still flexy.

I've got about 4.5" of lift + 1" BL to fit 40s. It fits under a standard garage door(barely). Definitely not super low COG... but cut it up to make it fit and then worry about lifting it to clear for the uptravel/ride height you want.

Next to a stock YJ for size comparison.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/flatlander757/Jeep%20stuff/1%20ton%20build/jeeppark2.jpg

[tjrider]

I like that theory! :thumbup: