A question for you carpenters..

[yellowjacket]

Im not a framer/builder, but I know there are some here...

My shop was a pole barn that we poured concrete floor in after it was up, using bottom bandboard as a form. Now that my shop is gone, including the poles, all that is left is the concrete slab.

Looking down the road when I rebuild, since I have no actual footers, can I stickbuild and put walls right on edge of slab? Or is slab going to move, sink, settle, ect.....

I dont see any good way to pull broken posts out, to put new ones in and rebuild as a pole barn...origional posts were concreted in..

Am I over thinking this? I know u would never build a house on top of a slab without footers...would u?

Thanx in advance:)

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[gothodgie]

How thick is the slab at the edges ? If it is only 4"s or so i don't know how well that would hold the walls in place if you just got some strong winds...

My idea would be to put new post in on the outside of the slab and repeat the band board as a form and just fill the void that is left between the old floor and the new band board...

Or put new post in outside the slab... build your walls on what would be the inside of the post and then when you finish the outside of the building you could trim out the post to make them look like columns on the outside of the building... giving the outside a little character and not looking like just a pole barn...

probably more work than you are looking for, but you could just dig a footer around the outside of your slab, given your slab has enough rebar and the edges will support itself until the footer is finished...

the more i think about it the more ideas i come up with...

my .02....

[yellowjacket]

Well I like your ideas...gives me stuff to think about...slab is 8"thick, built it like I intended on stayin here fer a while.... But if concrete inside a pole barn moves, its just a bummer. But if a slab thats holdin up the garage moves, its bad doo doo:( cause the whole shop moves too!

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[yellowjacket]

So far I like ur idea of havin another pole barn put up, but with posts outside slab then fillin the voids with concrete. I would eventually frame it in for interior walls and insulation, and it does seem redundant to have a pole barn with just as much wall lumber as a stick built shop....i dunno...? Having footers dug in underneath sounds $$$ though

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[twiztedzuki]

id use hilti gun and anchor boards straight to slab with it that thick

[gothodgie]

Originally Posted by twiztedzuki

id use hilti gun and anchor boards straight to slab with it that thick

and some good epoxy...

I agree... With 8"s thick it will hold pretty well... What condition was the ground in when you poured the slab ? Did you pour over solid ground that had never really been disturbed ? Was the top soil skimmed off and gravel put down, if so was it compacted really well ? I would want the ground to be good and solid under the slab if i was going to attach the walls to the slab... How long has the slab been there ? A good way to get an idea of how good the ground is under the slab is looking at how many cracks you have ib your floor... The less cracks the better... Also i would brace the heck out of the walls and corners like you were building in a Huricane area...

Yea digging footers and putting in a foundation wall would be pricey, mainly because concrete is so dam expensive these days...

[KennyTJ]

I had to help a buddy dig a french drain system around his house. The little ranch was built on a 6" slab with the walls anchored directly into the concrete. Of course I have no idea how much rebar was in there supporting it. I would think if the floor has been there for a while then it should have sellted pretty good.

Ever thought about making it say 2 feet wider and just putting new post outside the slab concreted in, and then backfilling the concrete on the inside?

Hope all is going well!

[yellowjacket]

Yup thats what hodgie said to do tooo...sounds like my best bet I think so far

All is well, thank u:) be a while on my phase inverter, but ill be pickin ur brain then!

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[jwend]

On the concrete it is a common misconception that thicker is better the density and cure rate that determines strength.. I would have no fear building a wall on the pad you have... It's not like you are building a 2 storie house or a 500000$ home who cares if it shifts a little etc.. it doesn't have to be perfectly square.. just my .02.... Roll on with it just over anchor and over build. That's my rule of thumb. Just as long as it is safe and meets building code

[Hope Springs Hauler]

Maybe consider using drilled and epoxied anchors for your sole plate

[yellowjacket]

Thanks jason. I know u are a builder and I value your expertise:beer:.... I did spec the higher psi grade, icr what it was exactly.

Id feel reall dumb if the last six inches of pad cracked off if it supported half the shop

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[jwend]

Your best bet is coma be get someone to assess the situation that has A LOT of experience.. I have a guy if you want his info.. he is the man when it comes to concrete and structure

[gothodgie]

Originally Posted by jwend

Your best bet is coma be get someone to assess the situation that has A LOT of experience.. I have a guy if you want his info.. he is the man when it comes to concrete and structure

that will answer all your questions... and yes jason i know it's not how thick it is but what the recipe is...

[yellowjacket]

Originally Posted by Hope Springs Hauler

Maybe consider using drilled and epoxied anchors for your sole plate

Not familiar w epoxied anchors...

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[eighty3bronco]

If you wanted to keep the same foot print, couldn't you cut out around where the pos pouts were then just pour concrete into the open hole and tie everything together?

[GPER]

Your slab is on top of the ground so the edges could become unsupported with erosion. With all of the weight of the building on the edges it could stress the edge. I would do a footer and do you have building codes that you have to follow and then you have the question. Will insurance insure a building built that way???

[yellowjacket]

update....
.opinions were split right down the middle on which way to do it...had a builder and concrete guy come out.their opinion was that if I was to stick build right on the edge, I should dig a footer around perimeter......bids came in averaging $3700 for diggiing and concrete work

right now another pole barn is sounding real nice.had the last shell up for 9k..I'm sure prices haven't gone down any


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[Bigboyky]

I don't ost here much and we've never met.... but looking at your pictures your slab already has some degree of void underneath. I would think it would still be ok to build on top, but I wouldn't do it. I have a overkill mentallity when building. One issue I see with building another building around this slab is the cold joints. The other issue is if you just go outside the slab, your gonna be cutting a bunch to make it fit. Now if your talking about forgetting this slab all together then my issues are out the door. I think I'd stay with digging footers and reusing this slab if it were me....

[yellowjacket]

what's a cold joint? I'm guessing where the existing slab meets the new concrete id pour?

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[humpy]

Personally I woukd build right on the slab and anchor it down... It's a pole building not a house in Hyde park... With the lumber on top the slab it will last longer than a building with poles sunk in the ground... Poles will Rot off at ground level after years of being built

[Bigboyky]

Yup a cold joint is where the two slabs meet. I still stick with digging footers. Heck you can do that yourself.... The only reason I see to do this is from your pictures I can see that there is a gravel base, That base around te edges might end up washing out over time. If that would happen you could end up with the slab breaking off. I doubt that would be the case but would hate to tel you it'll be fine then have it happen.

[yellowjacket]

yeah after pole barn went up I. packed 6" dense grade and dust to level it and a base.

.I take it a cold joint is not a good thing...avoid if possible?

ok maybe ill just bite it and spend the $ ...def want to do it right. plus if the next storm blows it away again ill have the footers ready for shop#3

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[yellowjacket]

any framers on here intrested in building a shell?

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[gothodgie]

Originally Posted by yellowjacket

any framers on here intrested in building a shell?

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I'd be interested....
I think you should look into something like i did for my upstairs... it sure is nice having a big room up there... Thought i had a better pic, i will get one tomorrow...

[nickhuts]

If there is a footer under it (36in thick) go for it. Did down and see what you got. Probably its just a slab poured on the ground. Did around the outside of the slab and dig a new footer and make it all nice and pretty start with some treated plates and go from there.

There will even be enough room to make a brick ledge
Judging by the 3 little piggys....

I drove through there not to long ago. I was pretty shocked to see what a lot of wind could do in person. It was pretty wild. Good luck with the build buddy.