Catsle law??? - Page 2

Hope Springs Hauler · 01-10-2010, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flxratd

im going to watch csi this week so i can get the facts just trying to decide if i go with miami,new york or vegas.

I'd say go with Miami.....the chicks are hotter

fordman00 · 01-15-2010, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuts

If I'm working in my detached garage and someone breaks in while I'm in there and I shoot them is it self defense? I read a ton of info in the Ohio revised code and found out about your home,temporary home, and car but nothing about a garage. Not sure if there are any lawyers on here but maybe someone could point me in the right direction. I'm asking because my garage has been broken into twice in the last month, the last time was just minutes after I went in. Its getting kind of nerv racking being out there at night not knowing if someone is coming in or not...

talked to a teacher who has over 35 years in law enforcement in Ohio and he said anywhere you are if someone tries to do bodily harm towards you or a family member it is self defense, and so on, but he wouldnt recommend shooting them just maybe a warning shot somewhere other than their body.

GPER · 01-15-2010, 12:11 PM

And put a hole in my roof, I'd rather put the hole in them.

RuffedUpXJ · 01-15-2010, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GPER

And put a hole in my roof, I'd rather put the hole in them.

Gotta slow him down enough to have the cops catch them. Now if its Trenton no need to shot because all of their cops are in fine athletic shape, even Pocahontas. Just messing Sarge.

Have there been any cases like this you have ran across Sarge?

fordman00 · 01-15-2010, 01:22 PM

id personally would rather not shoot him at all unless he presented a weapon because if he did then you have proof beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended to do harm and it would hold in court you were acted in self defense.sarge could maybe elaborate more about the court stuff, but i wouldnt want to shoot him unless he came at me or presented a weapon etc.

Nuts · 01-15-2010, 07:18 PM

I already said I'm not planning on shooting anybody.I just wondered what the law was incase it came to that. You never know what a crack head is going to do when they get caught breaking in somewhere...

fordman00 · 01-15-2010, 09:45 PM

yeah, with the hard times people are desperate. a drive thru down the road from me was robbed at knife point and another one was robbed by gun point.

Waffle · 01-17-2010, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordman00

talked to a teacher who has over 35 years in law enforcement in Ohio and he said anywhere you are if someone tries to do bodily harm towards you or a family member it is self defense, and so on, but he wouldnt recommend shooting them just maybe a warning shot somewhere other than their body.

Yeah it's self defense, but bodily harm isn't the same as imminent danger regarding life. That teacher should know better. You can draw to show the threat, which usually works. But a methed out crack head with no weapon means you can't shoot. Then what do you do! That's why my 45 gets carried with a taser. Any properly trained police department does the same for the exact same reason.

Warning shot! Seriously? FMJ ball ammo can rip through a wall taking down your neighbor walking the dog or anything. Even your kid playing wii. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard from someone with LE experience.......

GPER · 01-17-2010, 04:18 PM

So I'll just give the intruder a questionnaire to see if he marks yes on the question. Do you wish to harm my family????

94Dodge Truggy · 01-17-2010, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GPER

So I'll just give the intruder a questionnaire to see if he marks yes on the question. Do you wish to harm my family????

Bingo!

MrShoeBoy · 01-18-2010, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stickman

But a methed out crack head with no weapon means you can't shoot. Then what do you do!

A methed out crack head regardless if they have a weapon is a threat. The drugs dull the sense of pain and reason so they will continue until their body can no longer function. If placed in a suituation where a druged out meth head broke in my house I would shoot to stop the threat. They themselves are a weapon.

AARON

Waffle · 01-18-2010, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrShoeBoy

A methed out crack head regardless if they have a weapon is a threat. The drugs dull the sense of pain and reason so they will continue until their body can no longer function. If placed in a suituation where a druged out meth head broke in my house I would shoot to stop the threat. They themselves are a weapon.

AARON

Then you would probably be charged with a degree of manslaughter! And their family would gain the right to sue you in civil court. You need to think before you act. This is what makes these situations so dangerous. Your required to comprehend the level of danger at that time. If you shoot and a jury decides you acted with unwaranted leathal force, you will be found guilty.

Waffle · 01-18-2010, 10:25 PM

Here is a scenario I like to make. Lets say your lying in bed and you hear some screaming. You get up and grab the gun. Heading toward the front door you hear someone has just gained entry to the rear. Turning around you see a person all of a sudden appear from a hallway. *You fire* In fear of your life. But wait. This guy doesn't have a gun. Lying there motionless on the floor with the pool of blood getting bigger. You lower your weapon and then another person enters from the same area. you proceed to take them down as well.......
Turns out the person you shot was actually fleeing for their lives from another attacker (2nd victim) and hoped to evade them by going in your place. A police investigation reveals that the first victim was an enemy of the second and was simply trying to escape.
Now what happens. No leathel weapon on their person and their dead in your hallway. Guess what.......Your in cuffs with your wife and kids crying and screaming! Not only did your actions affect the lives of the victims in the shooting, but the lives of your family as well.
House and all possessions are sold to afford a good trial attorney. Need I go on? Wild scenario....yes. But a true one!

Waffle · 01-18-2010, 10:29 PM

Some of you might say "OH well".....but the story of you will be written in the paper of the good guy that made 1 bad mistake. That mistake got him 10-15 years.

Waffle · 01-18-2010, 10:38 PM

If an officer has his gun drawn on a man who is also holding a gun but lowered by his side. That officer doesn't have the right to shoot. The other man doesn't pose imminent danger until he raises his firearm. Those same laws apply to you.
Yes there are circumstances that can be argued in court. And jury's can swing either way depending on the argument.
Hmmmm, seems as though this is a touchy subject for me. I guess I just want everyone to gain as much knowledge as possible and a little perspective. I'd hate to see 1 bad mistake ruin the lives of so many close to that person....

blazerbrad · 01-19-2010, 11:30 AM

Law enforcement agents are held to a higher level when it comes to situations as mentioned above, so you can't really compare a cop pulling a gun on an armed person while in the process of committing a felony versus a private citizen pulling a gun on somebody breaking into their house in the middle of the night. But even in the case of a suspect holding a weapon that is not raised I would think that at some point in time a law enforcement agent could justify pulling the trigger if they refused to drop the weapon (I'l try to pose this question to my uncle who is a retired federal agent).

I also understand the point about waiting until someone pulls a weapon on you before shooting them, but you also need to realize that it is often too late once that happens. This isn't Hollywood and warning shots and shooting the gun out of his hand is only practical in the movies. The average gun or other weapon fight inside a building puts the two people within arms length of each other and lasts a matter of seconds......if you wait for the intruder to pull a knife it will probably be sticking out of your chest before you have time to react.

From my experience most people try to use some real world example of a guy that shot an intruder in his house and wound up in jail, but they conveniently leave out the very blatant details as to why the guy went to jail. Kind of like the story about how you shouldn't shovel the snow from the sidewalk in front of your house because that makes you liable if somebody slips and falls then. Did something like that happen....sure, but the guy was pissed he was told to shovel the sidewalk by the city so he sprayed it with water to intentionally coat it with ice afterwards....and that's the real reason he got in trouble.

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01-15-2010, 12:11 PM	#28
GPER Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kettering, Ohio Posts: 811	And put a hole in my roof, I'd rather put the hole in them.

01-15-2010, 01:22 PM	#30
fordman00 Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 433	id personally would rather not shoot him at all unless he presented a weapon because if he did then you have proof beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended to do harm and it would hold in court you were acted in self defense.sarge could maybe elaborate more about the court stuff, but i wouldnt want to shoot him unless he came at me or presented a weapon etc.

01-15-2010, 07:18 PM	#31
Nuts Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: middletown,oh Posts: 508	I already said I'm not planning on shooting anybody.I just wondered what the law was incase it came to that. You never know what a crack head is going to do when they get caught breaking in somewhere...

01-15-2010, 09:45 PM	#32
fordman00 Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 433	yeah, with the hard times people are desperate. a drive thru down the road from me was robbed at knife point and another one was robbed by gun point.

01-17-2010, 04:18 PM	#34
GPER Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kettering, Ohio Posts: 811	So I'll just give the intruder a questionnaire to see if he marks yes on the question. Do you wish to harm my family????

01-18-2010, 10:25 PM	#38
Waffle Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: . Posts: 75 Images: 10	Here is a scenario I like to make. Lets say your lying in bed and you hear some screaming. You get up and grab the gun. Heading toward the front door you hear someone has just gained entry to the rear. Turning around you see a person all of a sudden appear from a hallway. You fire In fear of your life. But wait. This guy doesn't have a gun. Lying there motionless on the floor with the pool of blood getting bigger. You lower your weapon and then another person enters from the same area. you proceed to take them down as well....... Turns out the person you shot was actually fleeing for their lives from another attacker (2nd victim) and hoped to evade them by going in your place. A police investigation reveals that the first victim was an enemy of the second and was simply trying to escape. Now what happens. No leathel weapon on their person and their dead in your hallway. Guess what.......Your in cuffs with your wife and kids crying and screaming! Not only did your actions affect the lives of the victims in the shooting, but the lives of your family as well. House and all possessions are sold to afford a good trial attorney. Need I go on? Wild scenario....yes. But a true one!

01-18-2010, 10:29 PM	#39
Waffle Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: . Posts: 75 Images: 10	Some of you might say "OH well".....but the story of you will be written in the paper of the good guy that made 1 bad mistake. That mistake got him 10-15 years.

01-18-2010, 10:38 PM	#40
Waffle Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: . Posts: 75 Images: 10	If an officer has his gun drawn on a man who is also holding a gun but lowered by his side. That officer doesn't have the right to shoot. The other man doesn't pose imminent danger until he raises his firearm. Those same laws apply to you. Yes there are circumstances that can be argued in court. And jury's can swing either way depending on the argument. Hmmmm, seems as though this is a touchy subject for me. I guess I just want everyone to gain as much knowledge as possible and a little perspective. I'd hate to see 1 bad mistake ruin the lives of so many close to that person....

01-19-2010, 11:30 AM	#41
blazerbrad - CORE Member - Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 831 Images: 6	Law enforcement agents are held to a higher level when it comes to situations as mentioned above, so you can't really compare a cop pulling a gun on an armed person while in the process of committing a felony versus a private citizen pulling a gun on somebody breaking into their house in the middle of the night. But even in the case of a suspect holding a weapon that is not raised I would think that at some point in time a law enforcement agent could justify pulling the trigger if they refused to drop the weapon (I'l try to pose this question to my uncle who is a retired federal agent). I also understand the point about waiting until someone pulls a weapon on you before shooting them, but you also need to realize that it is often too late once that happens. This isn't Hollywood and warning shots and shooting the gun out of his hand is only practical in the movies. The average gun or other weapon fight inside a building puts the two people within arms length of each other and lasts a matter of seconds......if you wait for the intruder to pull a knife it will probably be sticking out of your chest before you have time to react. From my experience most people try to use some real world example of a guy that shot an intruder in his house and wound up in jail, but they conveniently leave out the very blatant details as to why the guy went to jail. Kind of like the story about how you shouldn't shovel the snow from the sidewalk in front of your house because that makes you liable if somebody slips and falls then. Did something like that happen....sure, but the guy was pissed he was told to shovel the sidewalk by the city so he sprayed it with water to intentionally coat it with ice afterwards....and that's the real reason he got in trouble.