Say your 4 link'n

[JeffK5]

Just for fun say your considering going 4 link from a traditional leaf spring set-up what would be the best weld-on style end.

I'm with Carwash on the non-adjustable links and I'm not wanting to run heim joints so I'm considering a 3" Johnny joint from Currie. These are the top dog when it comes to rebuildable "orbit" style joints but at $80 a pop I'm exploring all options.

How about the Porc joint or the Hendrix X joint or smaller Currie joints?

What are you running?

Thanks, Jeff

[KargoMaster]

Against CW's wishes, I'm going to be running an adjustable Johnny Joint... knowing that it's only really adjustable until the first few good runs, at which time, their pretty much SET. But also knowing that sometime a 1/8" adjustment to make the axle square could be very helpful...

Cross sectional area of the 1.25" threaded shank isn't THAT much less than the 1.75x.375 wall (machined internal ends, custom threaded adapters) uppers, or 2" x .500"??? wall lowers...

Call me if you're ready to order... I know you're probably not, just picking people's brains... but Sean ("4ward") is ordering several sets shortly...

I'm sure that you've seen BillaVista's Pirate article... (couple years old now)
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...nts/index.html



And not to get off topic, but don't forget to think about the effects on shocks, driveline length, driveshaft angles... why do I have the feeling that you'll get done with this thing even AFTER me...

[jeep304]

Just from another idiot......with 30 years experiance......I don't believe in non
adjustable links! ! ! ! Sooner or later because of some minor chassis change
your going to want to adjust something...be it pinion angle or wheel base distance.. On the other hand ,I don't see the need for adjustability at ALL
points..just at one end of each bar. We believe that the adjustable end should be at the end up out of the crap. I really like the idea of johnny joints
instead of heims,for sealability, but heims have worked for years..To add to this..remember that there are seals available for keeping the crap out of heims
(I carrier these).....Just adding my 2 cents worth,with inflation is a buck and a half. I have built chassis all this time and have seen vehicles change in one
weekend..caged to death or not..things will change

....Nowa

[JeffK5]

Originally Posted by jeep304

Just from another idiot......with 30 years experiance......I don't believe in non
adjustable links! ! ! ! Sooner or later because of some minor chassis change
your going to want to adjust something...be it pinion angle or wheel base distance.. On the other hand ,I don't see the need for adjustability at ALL
points..just at one end of each bar. We believe that the adjustable end should be at the end up out of the crap. I really like the idea of johnny joints
instead of heims,for sealability, but heims have worked for years..To add to this..remember that there are seals available for keeping the crap out of heims
(I carrier these).....Just adding my 2 cents worth,with inflation is a buck and a half. I have built chassis all this time and have seen vehicles change in one
weekend..caged to death or not..things will change

....Nowa

I'm not sold on non-adjustable joints I just like the simplisity(sp) , and I agree a small amount of adjusment might be needed down the road.

I've been thinking of an adjustable rear four link bridge that adj. both upper links together, just an idea.

I'm set on fitting my 4link under my stock pan so (K5) I will hunting for the perfect coil for the job. I would love to use some coil-overs but the length of the bodys would require a big hack job on the pan and rear seat location problems.

I guess I should have said I was doing the rear sup. and leaving the front leaves. :o

Jeff

[carwash]

The only reason i am doing non-adjustable links is because of my past bad experience with adjustable ones...

But, i must say that my last suspension probably wasn't designed the best, it had bind in some of the joints at full flex and droop, therefore it bent the threads on the cheap masterCarr heims i used to use. (you get what you pay for in this industry.) I replaced all of those heims on that rig with weld-on johnny joints, therefore ending my bent threads issue. A better way to get rid of that issue would have been to redesign the mounts.

Since then i have learned to better build suspension systems, and without bind, im sure i would have no problem with even the cheap heims. I wish i had made my current link adjustable, as im sure once my rig completely settles, i will be probably an 1/8 to a 1/4 off somewhere. But, I'm big with peace of mind, I know that i will never have a joint failure due to threads failing, or a bung failing, or threads in a bung pulling out, etc... and like Brad said, after 2 trail runs of those lower links getting pounded on rock ledges... yer not gonna be able to adjust them, they will be set where they are.

But, my suggestion, build one side with a forged threaded johnny joint, the one with the forged shank, and build the other end with a weld on. Put the threaded one at the chassis, as it will see way less stress.




these come in 1"x12tpi and 1.25x14tpi, use these for threaded.

And go with the 2" joint like this at the other end...



the 2.5 and 3" joints are HUGE and you will have difficulty fitting all the mounts you need. I used the 2" even on my lower 2" arms. I had the end machined down to 1 5/8 so i would have some bite for a weld. the reduced thickness there is not an issue, as at the ends, the only issue is shear strength, not bend strength. MOI is no factor at the ends.

You can see the turn-down in this pic.

[img]http://www.schoolboy*****.com/ImageFolio4_files/gallery/Members/Carwash/Off_Road_Pics/06_Crawler_Build-up/06buggy_257.jpg[/img]

Long winded, sorry.

[JeffK5]

Great post guys, what brand joints do you run Mike?

No coments on the adjustable truss?

Also Mike , did you read my post about tube ?



Jeff

[carwash]

yes, read yourpost about tube, i request the thick wall every day. i will let you know when i have any.

i run the johnny joints by currie. have had nothing but great luck with them. easy to install with the correct tools as well. No need for crazy spanning wrenches and tiny allen heads, etc...

[KargoMaster]

Originally Posted by carwash

...these come in 1"x12tpi and 1.25x14tpi, use these for threaded...

Close, but I think you got them backwards on the thread pitch...

1"x14tpi and 1.25"x12tpi from polyperformance... unless they are wrong...



I was gonna do the left and right threaded shanks (per link), but I think the one ended adjustable sounds easier and slightly cheaper... hrmmmm...

I guess I'll get REALLY good at Hi-Lifting/winching the weight off the link to adjust it...

I just figured out that it would save about $200 to go with one non-adjustable... looking even better.


I'm not so sure about the adjustable truss idea... I like the fact that everything is welded into one (more or less) contiguous piece of metal... those adjustable bits would have to be BEEFY... I would say that they should be every bit as large as the threaded JJ ends... 1.25" on both sides... BEEF, serious BEEF.

Anyone else?

[jeep304]

Thats the only draw back to adjustable only on one end....you have to disassemble so as to adjust...BUT look at the cost savings...Nowa

[carwash]

How often will you really have to adjust... ?

[jeep304]

Think of how many times your frame deflecks and probbably does not return
to its neutral state....again,we've seen this happen in one weekend of weeling. So much that you can remove your bars and not get them back in or
not be able to remove them because of frame twist. The idea of beeting them
out or in is not a good one.

[JeffK5]

I spent many hours of reading on PBB , tons of over-educated engineer speak ... but there was good info to be found.

My system will be a double triangulated 4-link with non-parallel bars.

The lower links will terminate on center-line of the diff , while the uppers will end almost touching on the rear truss with a length of 80% of the lowers.

Still kicking around the the adjustable rear truss , it will be that or the there will be adjusters on the rear of the upper tubes.

Also undecided on how the front of all four links will be mounted, ether vertically staggered or in line. From what I've gathered if they all move from a common vertical center-line there's much improved squat/anti-squat, but the risk of links contacting each other during there cycle is much greater.

Since this rig will still have a tag on it I will most likely incorporate a anti-rock sway bar into the rear set-up as well.

Also looking for info on springs, would like a choice other than F150/Bronco
4"-6" lift coils.

JeffH

[94Dodge Truggy]

A friend showed me a coil spring from a ford aerostar van and it was impressive. Long and not too heavy duty. Tj coils work ell too.

[jeep304]

get hold of crazi429....I think he was toying with the aerostar springs or something like those with good ideas...Nowa

[JeffK5]

The aerostar spring has popped up many times in my searches , must be something to it

And to be truthfull I was wanting some coments on my ideas , bad or good!

Any opinions on link mount location?

[94Dodge Truggy]

Sounds good so far.

[carwash]

your link mount locations are a bit confusing... can you draw a picture?

[JeffK5]

Now Mike you know I can't even post pics..:o

I've studied the photos of the rear links on your new rig and I do like the way they work. Imagine if your upper links converged in the rear/center like you would have done if you weren't running a Rock, dig so far.

Now picture if the mounts for the front of all your links where all the same height from the floor, your top links start about 4" higher than your lower links do. By front/start I mean "chassis mount end".


I am sorry that my computer skills and my ability to convey a message on a typed screen are running neck-n-neck!

JeffH

[carwash]

i understand. that is the best type of 4 link... reverse triangulated, etc... almost no crab steer, etc. have you ran the numbers in the 4 link calculator?