ford 44s

[tjrider]

I have the chance to buy a front Ford d44 for cheap. Its from a 79ish f150, and I believe its the radius arm setup. Will this work for a tj? I've read somewhere that certain models wont fit. I think they had cast knuckles....? Need some input before I lose the deal

[frankensteinxj]

The cast knuckles limit you to using only ford radius arms unless you completely retube the axle.
I learned the hard way when I bought one for my xj. Ended up at the scrap yard.

If I were you I'd wait for a different deal.
Ford 44s arent to hard to find.

[tjrider]

Would it be stupid to run Ford arms? I saw it in a mj once

[frankensteinxj]

Originally Posted by tjrider

Would it be stupid to run Ford arms? I saw it in a mj once

Ive seen people run them and have no problems with it.
It just limits it to only being able to use the radius arms.

Here is a good thread about with a guy using them in tj.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=791009

[tjrider]

What does it mean to "wrist" one of the arms? Heims? That setup doesn't look too shabby

[kentuckytwostep]

I ran a setup pretty much like his in my XJ... flexed like a pro without wristing either arm. My only advice is if you are going to run a 44 with 35's or larger tires, splurge for GOOD axle joints.

[tjrider]

Originally Posted by kentuckytwostep

I ran a setup pretty much like his in my XJ... flexed like a pro without wristing either arm. My only advice is if you are going to run a 44 with 35's or larger tires, splurge for GOOD axle joints.

So you ran the OEM arms as is? Just a straight swap .. . I'm looking to do this and push the axle forward about 2 inches

[tjrider]

Does anyone know how much wider a 44 is over the d30?

[KennyTJ]

The '79 F250 High Pionion D44 8-lug axle is 67.5" wide after rebuild with all new bearings. I am building this axle right now along with a rear D60 for my '06 DAILY DRIVER TJ.

This axle has plenty of room for the TJ spring perches and is a good upgrade to the High Pionion 30 I ran in my TJ. This was originally a leaf spring axle so no radious arm wedges to deal with. You can change the hubs to 6 or 5 lug also, pleanty of aftermarket support. I would do the 8 lug just for the MASSIVE dual piston disc brake calipers (same as on the D60 BTW). With bigger, heavier tires and steel wheels with beadlocks, TJ rotors and calipers just won't cut it anymore, even with expensive EBC pads they wear out pretty quick, like every year.

FYI, on the TJ the radious arm setup will unload bigtime on steep hill climbs. Rubicon Express, Rusty's Offroad, and other manufactured kits have this issue as well with thier radious arm setups... again just FYI

[tjrider]

I know tons of guys running radius arms in their rigs and love them. Just trying to do the quickest swap I can

[T-bird]

Originally Posted by tjrider

I know tons of guys running radius arms in their rigs and love them. Just trying to do the quickest swap I can

This will by no means be a "quick swap". You are going to have to make your own steering, maybe move spring sperches, maybe move steering box, redo axle mounts or frame mounts and figure out your brakes.

If you are chosing this axle because its quick and easy you should just look into building a HP 30. They can run 35's reliable as long as you don't pound the gas.

[tjrider]

Originally Posted by T-bird

This will by no means be a "quick swap". You are going to have to make your own steering, maybe move spring sperches, maybe move steering box, redo axle mounts or frame mounts and figure out your brakes.

If you are chosing this axle because its quick and easy you should just look into building a HP 30. They can run 35's reliable as long as you don't pound the gas.

That was my first choice.....

[tjrider]

Maybe I'll just try to find one of those elusive rubi 44s

[tjrider]

After reading thread after thread..... it seems a d44 is just a d30 with a bigger R&P. Same tubes, knuckles, hubs, and bearings. I might as well build a HP 30 and save some coin. I read the ring gear is only @ 3/4" bigger on a 44.

[T-bird]

There are even people that swap out a rubi 44 for a hp 30. If you are going to run 35" MUDs and not some 14.5" wide bias pit bulls, it will work well. The best part is that everything will bolt right up.

[kentuckytwostep]

If you aren't looking for the extra width... I wouldn't blame you. I had nothing but broken parts with mine. I did cut the ford arms and slip a piece of 1/4" DOM over them (like the pirate link). I always wanted to fab up a 609 for the front to match the 9" rear.

[kentuckytwostep]

Originally Posted by tjrider

Just trying to do the quickest swap I can

I put mine in an XJ and it was amazing how easy it was... Almost like the cherokee designers aimed for people to swap in late 70's ford stuff. The rear axle bolted right up. rear leaf spring perches were 1/2" off and I welded on some new axle side shock mounts flush with the bottom of the axle. Had to offset the front coils inward by maybe and inch on each side. Front shocks bolted up. I mated the ford trac with the XJ trac and they lined up perfect... For the steering I kept the ford tierod but moved it to OTK and made a drag link (using 1 ton cheby TRE's) to run up to the steering arm. I made my own frame end mounts for the radius arms but they could be purchased from one of the many parts suppliers out there.

for a TJ... the rear is what would take you so long. You'd have to get link brackets to weld to the 9" housing.

[tjrider]

Originally Posted by kentuckytwostep

I put mine in an XJ and it was amazing how easy it was... Almost like the cherokee designers aimed for people to swap in late 70's ford stuff. The rear axle bolted right up. rear leaf spring perches were 1/2" off and I welded on some new axle side shock mounts flush with the bottom of the axle. Had to offset the front coils inward by maybe and inch on each side. Front shocks bolted up. I mated the ford trac with the XJ trac and they lined up perfect... For the steering I kept the ford tierod but moved it to OTK and made a drag link (using 1 ton cheby TRE's) to run up to the steering arm. I made my own frame end mounts for the radius arms but they could be purchased from one of the many parts suppliers out there.

for a TJ... the rear is what would take you so long. You'd have to get link brackets to weld to the 9" housing.

The rear has a 8.8 Ford already. I'm just trying to find something for the front.so you used all the factory axle mounts on the 44 and just slid DOM over the arms? How reliable was it?

[kentuckytwostep]

The suspension was very reliable. I loved the setup except for the fact that I couldn't keep axle joints in it... and when they went they took the shafts with them. I figured that if I was going to spend a grand (or two) on high grade joints and shafts I would rather just put that money toward a d60 and run stock parts until I outgrow them. So far in 6 months I've put more trail miles (and harder ones) on my 60 (with zero joint failures) than I did in a year on the 44 (with about 10 joint failures). There are some that think I may have not had my steering stops set in far enough and was over steering/binding the axle joints... :o that might be so. either way, I had a lot of these




Shoot me a PM with your email and I'll send you some pictures. Yeah, I used the ford radius arm brackets with some james duff poly bushings to correct the pinion angle.

Here is was it looked like when I was modifying the arms:



And even without a "wristed" arm flex was not an issue.

[tjrider]

Originally Posted by T-bird

There are even people that swap out a rubi 44 for a hp 30. If you are going to run 35" MUDs and not some 14.5" wide bias pit bulls, it will work well. The best part is that everything will bolt right up.

after talking with you and two step. i think the HP 30 is my best choice right now.... I'm only looking to run 35's anyways. i don't want huge tires, it takes the challenge out of wheeling. Maybe sleeve it and some good shafts, I should be good

[frankensteinxj]

Originally Posted by tjrider

after talking with you and two step. i think the HP 30 is my best choice right now.... I'm only looking to run 35's anyways. i don't want huge tires, it takes the challenge out of wheeling. Maybe sleeve it and some good shafts, I should be good

If you swap in the 30 you will always be worrying about breaking shafts or worse breaking the ring and pinion.
I wouldnt waste my time swapping one in personally, that is why I took mine out. once you lock it and put 35s on it those shafts are gonna hate life and you can expect to change at least one a trip.
Just a word from experience.

[coachholland]

I ran a locked HP D30 for two years with chromoly shafts initially with heavy 33 bias swampers and later 35" **** Cepek crushers. I geared to 4.10's because I didn't want R&P issues. I didn't run mild trails for what it was capable of. Widowmaker, Carb, Devil's Brew, Lower Staircase, etc at Slade. Lower, Middle, Killing Time, Pinball, Fish Fossil, Grapevine, Railbed, etc at Harlan. Plenty at Windrock. The setup worked quite well, didn't throw u-joints and not one breakage until for whatever reason I ended up with some play in my pinion which led to a chipped tooth on my ring gear. Granted I didn't run something like Lion's Den with a HP D30 on 35's, but that is not a 35" tire place to go anyway. Plus, I'm the type that will never see anything close to the rev limiter.

That said, I outgrew the D30...

[tjrider]

Is there an axle I can mate with the 8.8 @ the same width?

[frankensteinxj]

Originally Posted by tjrider

Is there an axle I can mate with the 8.8 @ the same width?

I would say that a hp44 is your best bet just not the one with cast wedges.
I know you have a tj but read around on naxja.org a little. search and read and search and read.
Pirate4x4 is also full of helpful info for what you are looking to do just lurk and search search search.
If you end up having to run something wider in the front you may just need to throw some wheel spacers on the 8.8.

Or you could swap im some tons

[WrenchMonkey]

Originally Posted by frankensteinxj

once you lock (a 30) and put 35s on it those shafts are gonna hate life and you can expect to change at least one a trip.
Just a word from experience.

Some guys do. I know Nick was killing one every time he turned around...

I've busted one in eight years, and that was a bit of mud-pit, rev-limiter foolishness...

Can't explain the difference, certainly ain't a matter of skill!

Robert