The Physics of Jars and Butterflys

MrShoeBoy · 09-25-2008, 02:58 PM

So I have a sealed jar with a butterfly inside.

1. Is the jar heavier with the butterfly sitting on the bottom or side?

OR

2. Is the jar heavier with the butterfly flying around inside the jar?

OR

3. Its always the same weight regardless if the butterfly is sitting or flying

Discuss... I was told I can ask for outside help on this homework project so do it well since I get a grade on this

Thanks!

AARON

hardluck · 09-25-2008, 03:18 PM

[QUOTE=MrShoeBoy;18080]So I have a sealed jar with a butterfly inside.

1. Is the jar heavier with the butterfly sitting on the bottom or side? this one

OR

2. Is the jar heavier with the butterfly flying around inside the jar? the weight is not measurable

OR

3. Its always the same weight regardless if the butterfly is sitting or flying. the mass is always the same but not the weight

i'm guessing but it makes sense to me

wilson1010 · 09-25-2008, 03:40 PM

3

Substitute jar full of water with a fish inside and it will be more apparent.

Of course, if you are just asking about the jar as opposed to the jar, butterfly and air, answer is teh same, reason is different.

94Dodge Truggy · 09-25-2008, 04:12 PM

Weight is the same flying or not. When the butterfly is flying the wind pressure exurted from the flapping wings will be the same as the weight displaced from the butterfly sitting on the bottom. Mythbusters on the discovery channel just covered this I believe with pigeons in a semi trailer. Now go finish your homework.

hardluck · 09-25-2008, 04:34 PM

never thought about the pressure from the flapping wings. you guys are right... i guess wisdom does come with age!

blazerbrad · 09-25-2008, 04:51 PM

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

But it's a moot point whether it's flying because the butterfly will be lying in the bottom of the jar dead by now because it suffocated.

KennyTJ · 09-25-2008, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94Dodge Truggy

Weight is the same flying or not. When the butterfly is flying the wind pressure exurted from the flapping wings will be the same as the weight displaced from the butterfly sitting on the bottom. Mythbusters on the discovery channel just covered this I believe with pigeons in a semi trailer. Now go finish your homework.

Not to get off track but the Mythbusters, while one of my favorite shows, has some of the shoddiest (poorest) science and engineering I've ever seen and they regularly get it wrong!

94Dodge Truggy · 09-25-2008, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KennyTJ

Not to get off track but the Mythbusters, while one of my favorite shows, has some of the shoddiest (poorest) science and engineering I've ever seen and they regularly get it wrong!

Really? :(

KargoMaster · 09-26-2008, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KennyTJ

Not to get off track but the Mythbusters, while one of my favorite shows, has some of the shoddiest (poorest) science and engineering I've ever seen and they regularly get it wrong!

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94Dodge Truggy

Really? :(

well... they are special effects guys... they only need to make things work for a couple of takes... I do enjoy that show...

<Sigh>, I miss Scottie...

MrShoeBoy · 09-26-2008, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94Dodge Truggy

Now go finish your homework.

Im working on it! Grad school is hard, I mean butterflys and jars! Who knew :p

Thanks for the replies guys! I was thinking it would be the same since the amount of air displaced inside the jar was the same regardless if it was flying or sitting dead on the bottom. Just had to double check with all you old wise guys on here

AARON

09-25-2008, 02:58 PM	#1
MrShoeBoy Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 120	The Physics of Jars and Butterflys So I have a sealed jar with a butterfly inside. 1. Is the jar heavier with the butterfly sitting on the bottom or side? OR 2. Is the jar heavier with the butterfly flying around inside the jar? OR 3. Its always the same weight regardless if the butterfly is sitting or flying Discuss... I was told I can ask for outside help on this homework project so do it well since I get a grade on this Thanks! AARON __________________ 91 MJ Under construction

09-25-2008, 03:18 PM	#2
hardluck Poor Bastard Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Lynchburg, OH Posts: 189	[QUOTE=MrShoeBoy;18080]So I have a sealed jar with a butterfly inside. 1. Is the jar heavier with the butterfly sitting on the bottom or side? this one OR 2. Is the jar heavier with the butterfly flying around inside the jar? the weight is not measurable OR 3. Its always the same weight regardless if the butterfly is sitting or flying. the mass is always the same but not the weight i'm guessing but it makes sense to me __________________ if you can't fit it....FORCE IT!!!!!!!!!

09-25-2008, 03:40 PM	#3
wilson1010 Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 147	3 Substitute jar full of water with a fish inside and it will be more apparent. Of course, if you are just asking about the jar as opposed to the jar, butterfly and air, answer is teh same, reason is different. __________________ Unimog 406 XJ with a bunch of stuff put on by somebody else Last edited by wilson1010; 09-25-2008 at 03:58 PM.

09-25-2008, 04:12 PM	#4
94Dodge Truggy EX-Vice President Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Fairfield, Ohio Posts: 3,048	Weight is the same flying or not. When the butterfly is flying the wind pressure exurted from the flapping wings will be the same as the weight displaced from the butterfly sitting on the bottom. Mythbusters on the discovery channel just covered this I believe with pigeons in a semi trailer. Now go finish your homework. __________________

09-25-2008, 04:34 PM	#5
hardluck Poor Bastard Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Lynchburg, OH Posts: 189	never thought about the pressure from the flapping wings. you guys are right... i guess wisdom does come with age! __________________ if you can't fit it....FORCE IT!!!!!!!!!

09-25-2008, 04:51 PM	#6
blazerbrad - CORE Member - Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 831 Images: 6	For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. But it's a moot point whether it's flying because the butterfly will be lying in the bottom of the jar dead by now because it suffocated.