HMMWV wheels...

KargoMaster · 04-05-2009, 12:45 AM

I put some 12-bolt HMMWV wheels together today...
Figured I would take some pics while I went along...
Tech Section needs some love too.

Below are the 2-piece rubber inserts, and the 2-piece (unmolested) magnesium inserts, and I'll update later with a THIRD type of insert... the rubber ring, when I break down the Jeep wheels to recenter. (I got the pressed centers, and so far, very happy with the quality, just need more hours in the day.)

These stock back-spaced wheels (like 7") have 33in tires for the front axle of the Big Red truck. (DRW hubs)

Here's the crux of the process today... try to get this rubber runflat into a
tire when both tire and runflat have the same inner diameter...

Enter: 2" ratchet strap...
(started with 1" but NEEDed the larger handle)

Muscle that B!TCH in there...

I'm a big fan of mechanical advantage...

Release tension with a dead-blow hammer, while wearing protective eye gear... seriously.
Then grab the second ring and toss it in the mix.
(It's a minor ring, but I'm a believer in the two piece rubber runflat now,
the 1-piece would have been even worse)

All three pieces lined up.

Drop it over the inner half-a-wheel carefully, and clean o-ring surfaces:

Drop on the outer half-a-wheel and bust out the impact wrench.

Slightly simpler for the two piece magnesium runflat... insert each half and bolt together... no ratchet strap BS,
or feeling like I NEED to wear eye protection.

(started getting darker... I'm standing right next to the white sided garage, apparently that makes the photo a little blue...:confused: )

GPER · 04-05-2009, 09:09 AM

Nice Brad, but why A/T tires??????

KargoMaster · 04-05-2009, 10:26 AM

These wheels/tires are for the front axle of the tow vehicle...

A 3500HD that I'm converting to 4x4... the 10 lug Dually Dana80 in the rear has 225/70R19.5 (Load Range F) tires and I was trying to match the outside diameter for the front 60 without breaking the bank (believe it or not, the 16.5 tires are cheap right now because they want to get rid of stock... but the issue will eventually be the supply running out

)

Here's the difference in the old steer tire, and the BFG:

I was inspired by this: (thought you might appreciate this GPER)
Wider fronts than the dually rears...

Here's mine:

Here's what it will become...

I didn't want to wait around for the illusive 10 lug low pinion, open knuckle Dana70 (which was ONLY installed in these trucks by outfitters like Monroe and Quigley as 4x4 conversions.... every 3500HD came off the line reg cab and 2wd), so I went with a high pinion Dana60 instead...

...which led me to the A/Ts! (wheew!)

Rear:

How the BFGs matched up with the rears...

JeffK5 · 04-05-2009, 10:47 AM

Good stuff.

It's been awhile since I've seen a new BFG-AT ... looks like a new more aggressive side wall?

Jeff

GPER · 04-05-2009, 12:32 PM

Since you clarified that they were for a tow rig, then I say good call. Some of the tractor trailers are going to the single drive tires and some of the trailers. About all the fuel tankers are running the single tire set up now.

JeffK5 · 04-05-2009, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GPER

Since you clarified that they were for a tow rig, then I say good call. Some of the tractor trailers are going to the single drive tires and some of the trailers. About all the fuel tankers are running the single tire set up now.

I don't think he's doing away with dual rear tires ... a single E rated tire on the rear would be a serious step backwards on this size tow rig.

GPER · 04-05-2009, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffK5

I don't think he's doing away with dual rear tires ... a single E rated tire on the rear would be a serious step backwards on this size tow rig.

I wasn't suggesting he use a single tire in back, since the big truck thing was brought up. I just went yammering on about that.

eighty3bronco · 04-05-2009, 08:44 PM

I think these are the ties that GPER was talking about but only come in a 22.5" rim size

http://www.michelintruck.com/micheli...=X%20One%20XDA

Although thses would look great on that truck. almost like racing slicks

77goldeneagle · 04-05-2009, 09:23 PM

where did you get the rubber inserts? I just got a good deal on a set of HMMWV wheels but they do not have the run flats........and I need the RF's so I can have the dbl beadlock!!!!!!!!!!

KargoMaster · 04-05-2009, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffK5

... looks like a new more aggressive side wall?
Jeff

Hrmm... Not sure on the differences in tread design, I know that I got these from Joe (kb9qdi) on this board and I have heard from several sources, including Joe, that these tires are the remainder of the supply from BFG in a 16.5 size, they are not making them any more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GPER

Some of the tractor trailers are going to the single drive tires and some of the trailers.

When I was over in London,England probably around '02?-'03? I remember thinking that is was WEIRD to see NO dual wheels... every "lorrie" had the super single thing... so when they started showing up in the States, it just reminded me of that experience. I think they make a LOT of sense, but they have to be $$$$$... (also shifting with the left hand is wacky... and make sure you pull up to the guard station at work on the "correct" side, or they will laugh at you continuously for two weeks.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 77goldeneagle

where did you get the rubber inserts? I just got a good deal on a set of HMMWV wheels but they do not have the run flats........and I need the RF's so I can have the dbl beadlock!!!!!!!!!!

When I had one HMMWV wheel with no insert (bought for the cheap without an insert, now the spare), I got one mag runflat from Tawl_Boy on Pirate... I just got the two complete wheels/runflats from 406_YJ on Pirate... I looked around for a little bit, but couldn't find anything local... checked with the guy that I got that spare from, nothing... so just pulled the trigger on some nice and recent gov auction items. (desert tan painted)

Here's another thought... there are PVC inserts that I'm certain you could search out on Pirate...

Another thing to know... the 16.5 variety wheel had different wheel angles for the bead area... I know that is vague, almost as much as some old timer saying "Stay away from the 16.5 wheels, they pop a bead all the time" but those two things are CERTAINLY connected in my experience, so be sure that you get something to stuff between the beads...

Quote:

Originally Posted by eighty3bronco

only come in a 22.5" rim size

Although these would look great on that truck. almost like racing slicks

I have to say that the idea is intriguing Pete, but I have a hard enough time with the 19.5 wheels on the rear now... for the amount of miles this thing runs, or will run eventually (no comment from the peanut gallery!)... I figure these will last... at least until the next hole in a tire!

mckeddie · 04-05-2009, 11:44 PM

me and butch were discussing this the other day....why the 4 wheel drive swap? just for slade and haspin? or for winter use?

carwash · 04-06-2009, 09:43 AM

I thought he was crazy for it as well, seemed useless and a wast of money until he explained it to me... then it all made sense.

The cost of the kingpins to rebuild his current front axle (which it's in need of) is the same as the cost of a HP60... so why not do it then? And with 4wd, no worries anymore about where you park and if it rains. When i was towing years ago with a 2wd dually ford, i was stressed every time we hit livingston or slade. wondered if i would make it out after the weekend and rains were done.

KargoMaster · 04-06-2009, 10:36 AM

Yep... it's just a "why not go a little more and create more capability" thing... The kingpins for that I-Beam solid front axle that it has now are $$$$$... like a quick $500 worth... The Load Range F steer position 19.5 tires are almost another grand brand new... That's right, more than $400 a piece for good new ones (although you can find unbalancable, wobbly crap from China for less... I'll pass)...

Got the Ford NP205 for a steal... (so good, I bought two even) ...and yes, there's bits and pieces that will add to more than just the kingpin cost, but in the end I will eliminate some issues that I have, and have more capability for things like winter weather and piece of mind.

On the rear of the 4L80e right now is a massive drum driveline break... I believe it is a source of vibration in my driveline, along with the three piece rear driveshaft... two different types of carrier bearings (keep in mind that this was converted to crew cab from reg cab... massive RV/bus frame splice)... I'm thinking that they work against each other once that vibration starts from the drum... (only happens at about 65-70mph... but peak cruising speeds when in traffic)

So potentially, I shorten up the rear driveshaft when I put in the tcase, bring the complexity of the rear shaft down to two piece... and I've created a very unique monster of a truck that didn't break the bank (it is 14 years old) that has gobs of capability and a safety factor that makes me confident that my family is safe while traveling...

In, thanks for the chance.

blazerbrad · 04-07-2009, 09:53 AM

Definitely agree that having a 4wd tow rig is nice, especially a heavy dually like this one. I grew up doing site work construction and helping on farms and quickly found out that 2wd duallys are about the worst vehicle out there in regards to mobility. Many people think that by having 4 rear tires that makes them better, but generally not the case especially in mud as the duals just turn into one giant drag slick.

My personally tow rig is 4wd and can't count the number of times I've needed 4wd when towing the trailer. I would even consider my truck on the higher end capabilitiy wise in 2wd because it has an effective rear limited slip diff and good tires. There have even been times when I'm still on gravel but need 4wd and/or low range to get around.

KargoMaster · 04-07-2009, 11:18 AM

Thanks for the support Brad... much appreciated...

After an experience in some sand up in Michigan on a vacation... I came to realize that the 90psi load range F tires don't exactly allow for the most possible traction...

So that all led me to the dually front end and the HMMWV tires... the challenge now will be tucking that 60 up under Big Red without a whole lot of lift.

(the 86-91 spring pad distance of 36.5 should allow for some creative shackle placement... and like just about everything I own, it will likely be over built, although on this truck, that's gonna be tough)

04-05-2009, 12:45 AM	#1
KargoMaster Cleaning off the rust... Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,009	HMMWV wheels... I put some 12-bolt HMMWV wheels together today... Figured I would take some pics while I went along... Tech Section needs some love too. Below are the 2-piece rubber inserts, and the 2-piece (unmolested) magnesium inserts, and I'll update later with a THIRD type of insert... the rubber ring, when I break down the Jeep wheels to recenter. (I got the pressed centers, and so far, very happy with the quality, just need more hours in the day.) These stock back-spaced wheels (like 7") have 33in tires for the front axle of the Big Red truck. (DRW hubs) Here's the crux of the process today... try to get this rubber runflat into a tire when both tire and runflat have the same inner diameter... Enter: 2" ratchet strap... (started with 1" but NEEDed the larger handle) Muscle that B!TCH in there... I'm a big fan of mechanical advantage... Release tension with a dead-blow hammer, while wearing protective eye gear... seriously. Then grab the second ring and toss it in the mix. (It's a minor ring, but I'm a believer in the two piece rubber runflat now, the 1-piece would have been even worse) All three pieces lined up. Drop it over the inner half-a-wheel carefully, and clean o-ring surfaces: Drop on the outer half-a-wheel and bust out the impact wrench. Slightly simpler for the two piece magnesium runflat... insert each half and bolt together... no ratchet strap BS, or feeling like I NEED to wear eye protection. (started getting darker... I'm standing right next to the white sided garage, apparently that makes the photo a little blue...:confused: ) __________________ brad 5.0L \| 435 \| 203 \| 300 \| 4.10 \| 39.5 Buildup BACK underway... Last edited by KargoMaster; 04-05-2009 at 01:12 AM.

04-05-2009, 10:26 AM	#3
KargoMaster Cleaning off the rust... Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,009	These wheels/tires are for the front axle of the tow vehicle... A 3500HD that I'm converting to 4x4... the 10 lug Dually Dana80 in the rear has 225/70R19.5 (Load Range F) tires and I was trying to match the outside diameter for the front 60 without breaking the bank (believe it or not, the 16.5 tires are cheap right now because they want to get rid of stock... but the issue will eventually be the supply running out ) Here's the difference in the old steer tire, and the BFG: I was inspired by this: (thought you might appreciate this GPER) Wider fronts than the dually rears... Here's mine: Here's what it will become... I didn't want to wait around for the illusive 10 lug low pinion, open knuckle Dana70 (which was ONLY installed in these trucks by outfitters like Monroe and Quigley as 4x4 conversions.... every 3500HD came off the line reg cab and 2wd), so I went with a high pinion Dana60 instead... ...which led me to the A/Ts! (wheew!) Rear: How the BFGs matched up with the rears... __________________ brad 5.0L \| 435 \| 203 \| 300 \| 4.10 \| 39.5 Buildup BACK underway... Last edited by KargoMaster; 04-05-2009 at 10:39 AM.

04-05-2009, 08:44 PM	#8
eighty3bronco anywhere but there Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Blanchester, Oh Posts: 174	I think these are the ties that GPER was talking about but only come in a 22.5" rim size http://www.michelintruck.com/micheli...=X%20One%20XDA Although thses would look great on that truck. almost like racing slicks __________________

04-05-2009, 11:44 PM	#11
mckeddie Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: van wert oh Posts: 583	me and butch were discussing this the other day....why the 4 wheel drive swap? just for slade and haspin? or for winter use? __________________ zuk buggy.....it'll be a jeep eventually.

04-06-2009, 09:43 AM	#12
carwash pimpin' IS easy Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Union, KY Posts: 3,344 Images: 605	I thought he was crazy for it as well, seemed useless and a wast of money until he explained it to me... then it all made sense. The cost of the kingpins to rebuild his current front axle (which it's in need of) is the same as the cost of a HP60... so why not do it then? And with 4wd, no worries anymore about where you park and if it rains. When i was towing years ago with a 2wd dually ford, i was stressed every time we hit livingston or slade. wondered if i would make it out after the weekend and rains were done. __________________

04-05-2009, 09:09 AM	#2
GPER Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kettering, Ohio Posts: 811	Nice Brad, but why A/T tires??????

04-05-2009, 10:47 AM	#4
JeffK5 Tiny Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Colerain Posts: 798	Good stuff. It's been awhile since I've seen a new BFG-AT ... looks like a new more aggressive side wall? Jeff

04-05-2009, 12:32 PM	#5
GPER Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kettering, Ohio Posts: 811	Since you clarified that they were for a tow rig, then I say good call. Some of the tractor trailers are going to the single drive tires and some of the trailers. About all the fuel tankers are running the single tire set up now.

04-05-2009, 09:23 PM	#9
77goldeneagle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Spencerville,OH Posts: 74	where did you get the rubber inserts? I just got a good deal on a set of HMMWV wheels but they do not have the run flats........and I need the RF's so I can have the dbl beadlock!!!!!!!!!!

04-06-2009, 10:36 AM	#13
KargoMaster Cleaning off the rust... Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,009	Yep... it's just a "why not go a little more and create more capability" thing... The kingpins for that I-Beam solid front axle that it has now are $$$$$... like a quick $500 worth... The Load Range F steer position 19.5 tires are almost another grand brand new... That's right, more than $400 a piece for good new ones (although you can find unbalancable, wobbly crap from China for less... I'll pass)... Got the Ford NP205 for a steal... (so good, I bought two even) ...and yes, there's bits and pieces that will add to more than just the kingpin cost, but in the end I will eliminate some issues that I have, and have more capability for things like winter weather and piece of mind. On the rear of the 4L80e right now is a *massive* drum driveline break... I believe it is a source of vibration in my driveline, along with the three piece rear driveshaft... two different types of carrier bearings (keep in mind that this was converted to crew cab from reg cab... massive RV/bus frame splice)... I'm thinking that they work against each other once that vibration starts from the drum... (only happens at about 65-70mph... but peak cruising speeds when in traffic) So potentially, I shorten up the rear driveshaft when I put in the tcase, bring the complexity of the rear shaft down to two piece... and I've created a very unique monster of a truck that didn't break the bank (it is 14 years old) that has gobs of capability and a safety factor that makes me confident that my family is safe while traveling... In, thanks for the chance. __________________ brad 5.0L \| 435 \| 203 \| 300 \| 4.10 \| 39.5 Buildup BACK underway...

04-07-2009, 09:53 AM	#14
blazerbrad - CORE Member - Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 831 Images: 6	Definitely agree that having a 4wd tow rig is nice, especially a heavy dually like this one. I grew up doing site work construction and helping on farms and quickly found out that 2wd duallys are about the worst vehicle out there in regards to mobility. Many people think that by having 4 rear tires that makes them better, but generally not the case especially in mud as the duals just turn into one giant drag slick. My personally tow rig is 4wd and can't count the number of times I've needed 4wd when towing the trailer. I would even consider my truck on the higher end capabilitiy wise in 2wd because it has an effective rear limited slip diff and good tires. There have even been times when I'm still on gravel but need 4wd and/or low range to get around.

04-07-2009, 11:18 AM	#15
KargoMaster Cleaning off the rust... Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,009	Thanks for the support Brad... much appreciated... After an experience in some sand up in Michigan on a vacation... I came to realize that the 90psi load range F tires don't exactly allow for the most possible traction... So that all led me to the dually front end and the HMMWV tires... the challenge now will be tucking that 60 up under Big Red without a whole lot of lift. (the 86-91 spring pad distance of 36.5 should allow for some creative shackle placement... and like just about everything I own, it will likely be over built, although on this truck, that's gonna be tough) __________________ brad 5.0L \| 435 \| 203 \| 300 \| 4.10 \| 39.5 Buildup BACK underway...